Baron anti-icing equipment??

[Palerider957]

A couple of questions for the board:

Can anyone tell me the approximate costs of adding a hot plate to the windshield of a Baron E-55?

I'm looking at buying a baron that has good boots, but alcohol props and windshield. I want to be able to condfidently fly in the Northeast on occaison, so is that alcohol system any good? I've used boots, and electrical props/windshield, but never the alcohol system.

Also, how is the Baron in ice?

Thanks a lot for your input....

 

[KeroseneSnorter]

Baron in ice is like any light twin, You do not want to be in it long. You will start to lose a bunch of airspeed in a few minutes in continous icing.

To make the E-55 legal for known ice you will have to add wing root boots, hot windshield plate, upgraded alternators, and hot props, not to mention the STC that will be required.

The alcohol system sucks, It is not a deicing system, only an anti icing system, and with both props and windshield running you only have about 10 minutes of fluid flow time till empty, Props only is about 30 mins.

I have had barons in some pretty good ice back in the freight days but you learned to not screw around long in it. However that was 58's with the hot props and boots. We had one 55 with alcohol props and it DID NOT venture into ice on purpose, and that is making a statement when a bunch of young stupid freight dogs won't do something in an airplane!


EDIT: Not even sure the E models can get Known icing certification, The 58's with known ice is limited to light icing only if memory serves.

 

[sleepy]

I agree with everything he said. I flew all kinds of poorly maintained Barons hauling freight: 55, 58, and 58P. The 58P was the best in ice, but I would much rather have been in the PA-35. Might I suggest that you look at the PA-31 if you are going to be flying into known icing.

 

[Palerider957]

I definately appreciate the replies. I don't wan't to head into known icing, but I want the option to at least shoot an approach into TOL, CLE, MPV during the winter months.

I have looked at a Navajo, but the AD's will kill you. I like the Barons, but youw words certainly have impact.

How were the Barons that were certified for known icing?

 

[Lead Sled]

There is another option when it comes to de-icing a Baron. There is a company (maybe two) that offers an STC for a "known icing" TKS system. It's pricey, but I don't know if you can even upgrade the boots on the E55 to "known icing". Before you decide to launch off into icing conditions you had better understand the consequences of doing it in an airplane without the full on known icing approval. Ten or twenty years ago, no one really seemed to care - nowadays it seems that they do. Here is a link to an Air Safety Foundation publication that will explain the current situation:

http://www.aopa.org/asf/publications/sa22.pdf

Here is a link for the Baron information:

http://www.flightice.com/baron.html

FWIW, it's been a long time since I've flown a Baron. I've flown 3 different models - the B55, the 56TC, and the 58P. The freight guys said it best - Boots or not, known ice or not, you don't linger in ice in any of these airplanes.

'Sled

 

[prpjt]

We operated a known ice Baron a few years back, a 1998 model, IO550's. You take a weight hit for all the deice equipment that reduces your day to day range.

On an approach it's mediocre. Enroute it bleeds off speed too quickly for my taste. If you get in ice, get out.

I cancelled several trips due to moderate ice/ low ceilings, even though it was 'known ice'. The issue is if you have to miss. The minimum ice speed is 140 kias in a Baron, and that plane just doesn't climb at 140 or above with any kind of load.

 

[av8tortype]

A couple of questions for the board:

Can anyone tell me the approximate costs of adding a hot plate to the windshield of a Baron E-55?

Why not look at a Duke as well as the Baron. I fly a B60 with known icing and it's quite a workhorse in ice. It has the flexibility to get above or below the weather with minimal pilot workload. Fuel burn is a slight penalty but performance is a plus.

 

[sleepy]

Just don't mess around with the alcohol window or props. Get one with the hot window and the hot props.

 

[Palerider957]

Thaks for everyone's replies.


This plane would be used for personal business and pleasure, no trip I took would be time critical. So having to wait a day for weather to clear probably wouldn't be too much of a problem.

As for gettin a Duke, I have heard horror stories about these planes. I know one fellow who ones one and his plane spends more time in the shop then flying. I cold be wrong, but that's my impression.

The Baron I'm looking at has the alcohol props/windshield, but I would be looking to upgrade that to electrical over time.

I haven't found a good website that can give me reasonable costs and time involved. Does anyone have any suggestions?

 

[Palerider957]

Lead sled:

I remember when TKS came out for the moony's about 10 years ago, if I remember it was a $70K option. It might be a little much to put into an older plane. Thanks a lot for the Baron link, it's great!

 

[Lead Sled]

Lead sled:

I remember when TKS came out for the moony's about 10 years ago, if I remember it was a $70K option. It might be a little much to put into an older plane. Thanks a lot for the Baron link, it's great!

It won't cost anything near that amount, but that's not to say that it's not spendy. There are a couple of websites for TKS addons that show pricing. A known ice certified system will cost "just" $30K to $40K. (When it comes to aviation, money takes on a whole new meaning. If you think that's bad wait until you start messing around with jets. )

You've got to remember that merely adding the equipment DOES NOT make you legal if you end up using it. You're best bet, if stuff like being legal matters to you, is getting something already certified for known icing - best to let someone else take the depreciation hit. As far as light twins go, your choices are somewhat limited - but you can get a descent airplane for less than $200K. The cheapest known-ice twins are probably the Seneca IIs or later model Aztecs, followed by later Cessna 310s. I know, I know, none of those fly nearly as nice as the 55 Barons do, but unless you're will to plop down and additional $40K or so onto the table you're going to be really limited as to just when you can fly the beast once winter sets in. Those pesky forecasters just love adding the phrase "chance of icing in clouds or precipitation" to cover their posteriors. (And unfortunately, that's all it takes any more.)

'Sled

 

[av8tortype]

As for gettin a Duke, I have heard horror stories about these planes. I know one fellow who ones one and his plane spends more time in the shop then flying. I cold be wrong, but that's my impression.
QUOTE]

True, they can bite you on the maintenance if things haven't been kept up. Other than a bad batch of engines from Lycoming with weak cams and lifters awhile back they are pretty dependable birds. They tend to be more like a King Air than a Baron in systems but you can still get them serviced by a decent piston FBO.