A Squared
Well-known member
- Joined
- Nov 26, 2001
- Posts
- 3,006
Hi,
I’m interested in some discussion on the following situation: WE do most of our training and checking at Fairbanks International (FAI, PAFA). One recurring problem is that when getting vectors for final for ILS RWY 19R, (Unless there's unusual wind conditions, you usually do that ILS twice each checkride) more often than not FAI approach gives you vectors that leave you intercepting the localizer well above the glide slope. I don’t mean this is an occasional "oops, sorry, bad vector", It happens which metronomic regularity. Just to understand the situation a little better, here’s a chart of the procedure:
http://avn.faa.gov/d-tpp/0608/01234I19R.PDF
I believe that the MVA out in that area is 4000 ft, at least I don’t recall ever having been vectored at a lower altitude and I’ve been taking checkrides there for 6 years now. So typically, you’ll be vectored around at 4000’, then given a vector to intercept final which will have you intercepting the localizer well inside the FOX NDB. The profile view does not show it very well, (or at all, I guess) but the glideslope crosses the FOX NDB right about 3800 ft. For an absolute fact, if you intercept the LOC inside FOX, at 4000’, you *will* be substantially above the GS.
Unless I’m missing something, this is not a legal vector. The ATC handbook seems pretty clear on this :
5-9-1. VECTORS TO FINAL APPROACH COURSE
Except as provided in para 7-4-2, Vectors for Visual Approach, vector arriving aircraft to intercept the final approach course:
a. omitted for relevance
b. For a precision approach, at an altitude not above the glideslope/glidepath or below the minimum glideslope intercept altitude specified on the approach procedure chart.
This is not a case of the controller screwing up and giving you a bad vector. That happens, controllers make mistakes too. This happens far too regularly to be merely an error. There’s some sort of disconnect between what the controllers do and what their handbooks say they are supposed to do.
Anyway. So there you are, on a checkride, given a vector, which when compared to your RMI leaves no doubt that you will intercept the LOC inside the FOX NDB, and you are to maintain 4000’ until established on the localizer . What do you do, and why?
I’m interested in some discussion on the following situation: WE do most of our training and checking at Fairbanks International (FAI, PAFA). One recurring problem is that when getting vectors for final for ILS RWY 19R, (Unless there's unusual wind conditions, you usually do that ILS twice each checkride) more often than not FAI approach gives you vectors that leave you intercepting the localizer well above the glide slope. I don’t mean this is an occasional "oops, sorry, bad vector", It happens which metronomic regularity. Just to understand the situation a little better, here’s a chart of the procedure:
http://avn.faa.gov/d-tpp/0608/01234I19R.PDF
I believe that the MVA out in that area is 4000 ft, at least I don’t recall ever having been vectored at a lower altitude and I’ve been taking checkrides there for 6 years now. So typically, you’ll be vectored around at 4000’, then given a vector to intercept final which will have you intercepting the localizer well inside the FOX NDB. The profile view does not show it very well, (or at all, I guess) but the glideslope crosses the FOX NDB right about 3800 ft. For an absolute fact, if you intercept the LOC inside FOX, at 4000’, you *will* be substantially above the GS.
Unless I’m missing something, this is not a legal vector. The ATC handbook seems pretty clear on this :
5-9-1. VECTORS TO FINAL APPROACH COURSE
Except as provided in para 7-4-2, Vectors for Visual Approach, vector arriving aircraft to intercept the final approach course:
a. omitted for relevance
b. For a precision approach, at an altitude not above the glideslope/glidepath or below the minimum glideslope intercept altitude specified on the approach procedure chart.
This is not a case of the controller screwing up and giving you a bad vector. That happens, controllers make mistakes too. This happens far too regularly to be merely an error. There’s some sort of disconnect between what the controllers do and what their handbooks say they are supposed to do.
Anyway. So there you are, on a checkride, given a vector, which when compared to your RMI leaves no doubt that you will intercept the LOC inside the FOX NDB, and you are to maintain 4000’ until established on the localizer . What do you do, and why?