Bad news, NWA parking 59 aircraft

[jetflier]

Something doesn't add up, jetflier.

They can't give back DC-9's to the leasing company.. they are owned outright!

Smelly smelly smelly...

I don't know what your source is , stating that all NWA DC9's are owned outright, but I can tell you from what I see in the DC9 cockpit, there are many NWA DC9's with leasing certificates mounted in the cockpit. Most of the owners are , PBGC, Chase, Wells Fargo, and a few other...if I had to guess as to how many DC9's are leased, I guess about 25%...

So, why did you make your statement that the DC9's are owned outright ?....flame?....know it all?.....what ?

 

[doh]

Is this Rainey guy a pilot? How did he end up being VP flight ops?

Yes, he is nominally a pilot. He is and probably always has been a suit wannabe first though.

 

[Draginass]

and the question, "Does America need another scum-bag, s hit-hole, pay and benefit lowering, screw every other airline in the US, airline?" is again brought into the limelight. Can't this crap ever die?

Just another JetBlue. Will start up with sweetheard deals from Airbus, little/no heavy maintenance costs, low-ball fares, etc. Will make big money for the early-on execs who will start jumping ship when the free-lunch wagon stops coming by.

This is all about putting huge money in the pockets of a few people. This is how the American economy and political leaders work now. Get used to it or vote in some people to the gubment who aren't bought by the American corporate elites.

 

[Spooky 2]

Well, this is just in from a flight ops meting, and is quoted,

"Not my notes, just passing the word......



747-400 - parking 4
747-200 - parking 3
DC-9 = parking 33
A319 - parking 19

adding 8 787 and 8 330, net loss of 43 planes


or even better 30-DC9 and 19 A319 = approx 5986 seats, 76 76 seaters = 5776 seats "we don't think NWA will do that," "We need the lift"

According to Rainey, NWA plans to eliminate numerous A319s
and DC-9s by the end of 2008 due to lease negotiations. He
�says� that no furloughs and no displacements will result.
Attrition will �fix� that problem. ???? What to bet???

Also said ALL furloughed pilots will be offered a job by
July, 2007. They plan to start-up the HR department in Flt.
Ops. in Q4 of 2007, and could begin hiring new pilots in
2008.

>
Bottom Line�
We are headed towards a total of 4000 pilots by end of 2008.
While Compass, Mesaba, and Pinnacle thrive and grow."

You guys have one B757 parked in Marana (N550NW). Anyone know the status of that particular airplane?

 

[Smarta$$]

******************** those RJs!

Stop voting to give them away.

 

[atpcliff]

Hi!

If we have open skies, I don't think that will hurt US pilots right now. The Euros have a worse pilot shortage than we do.

cliff
YIP

 

[ExAF]

Info Flow

Isn't it funny when they have "good" (and I use that term loosely these days) news they are all over it, sending out press releases, sending out company emails, blurbs in Atlas, etc. But when there is news like this, they are in the church mouse mode.

 

[Occam's Razor]

You guys have one B757 parked in Marana (N550NW). Anyone know the status of that particular airplane?

Ship 5650. In service. Will not get winglets. Was subject to a lease-rate food fight with the leasing company. I think it's setteld now.

 

[Occam's Razor]

I don't know what your source is , stating that all NWA DC9's are owned outright, but I can tell you from what I see in the DC9 cockpit, there are many NWA DC9's with leasing certificates mounted in the cockpit. Most of the owners are , PBGC, Chase, Wells Fargo, and a few other...if I had to guess as to how many DC9's are leased, I guess about 25%...

So, why did you make your statement that the DC9's are owned outright ?....flame?....know it all?.....what ?

"Owned" ain't the proper term. Many of our aircraft are subject to liens that may, or may not, involve the entire aircraft. In some cases, the engines are used a collateral for loans. All DC-9's are owned by NWA. About 50% of them are subject to some kind of lien...either on the hull...or the engines.

Several aircraft are pure sale/lease-back arrangements, including the 7 A320's that are are on Step Leases that can be renegotiated when NWA exits Chapter 11. I suspect the leasing company will press hard for higher lease rates, and NWA could turn them back instead.

It will come down to Marketing. If they need the seats, the jets will stay put regardless of the price. If they don't...one fleet gets a little closer to being staffed correctly (for a few months!).

 

[wmudriver]

Why park the 47-400s? Aren't they making money doing Pacific flying?

 

[YourPilotFriend]

Why park the 47-400s? Aren't they making money doing Pacific flying?

The 787 is a better aircraft.

 

[Occam's Razor]

Why park the 47-400s? Aren't they making money doing Pacific flying?

ALL aircraft will be parked. Every one of them!

All jetBlue A320's will be parked. All DAL B777's will be parked. All NWA B787's set for delivery next year will be parked.

The only relevant question is "When?"

The "announcement" by NWA mid-level drones that 3-4 B747-400's will be parked had a couple of different target audiences. The pilot group and the leasing company. Hence no timeline was given.

There are three guaranteed ways to get pilots to pay very close attention to an announcement:

1. Mark it CONFIDENTIAL
2. Whisper it in the crew lounge.
3. Start with the words, "Here's the fleet plan..."

Curiously, none of those is an indication of accuracy. Some announcements by management (not just ours...but all managements) made to employee groups instead of to the media, are intended to plant a seed.

Here are two announcements Rainey could have made at the pilot meeting:

1. "There will be no changes over the next 2-years to the DC-9 fleet plan we gave you in 1999."
2. "We will be parking up to 30 DC-9's over the next two years."

They are both accurate, but without follow-up clarification, will have a vastly different effect on the pilot group.

The mention of the B747-400 "plan" will eventually get to the leasing company, and they will envison another NWA showdown, similar to the one in 2005 when NWA flew 3 aircraft to the desert and turned them over. The leasing company panicked, and renegotiated the leases with terms VERY favorable to NWA. It's typical hardball negotiations, where the side that needs it the least, wins.

In the end, the fleet plan will be driven by the Marketing Plan, which will be driven by route access (government), competition, and the economy.

 

[xjhawk]

so this announcement is not an official media thing? I have not seen any docs to make me beleive NWA would park planes with the profit and lack of seats available on many flights.

 

[Occam's Razor]

so this announcement is not an official media thing? I have not seen any docs to make me beleive NWA would park planes with the profit and lack of seats available on many flights.

You got it.

It was a briefing by the VP of Flt Ops to a bunch of pilots. You'll find no mention of any of it in the Disclosure Statement filed two weeks ago, because that would mean it's official, instead of a high inside fastball intended to make us think about the next pitch.

 

[YourPilotFriend]

It now has an official media announcement.....

http://www.startribune.com/535/story/1060988.html

 

[densoo]

It now has an official media announcement.....

http://www.startribune.com/535/story/1060988.html

Northwest intends to shrink its mainline fleet -- aircraft used for domestic and international flying and seating 100 or more people -- from 375 planes in 2006 to 337 in 2008. Northwest also plans to substantially increase its fleet of regional planes, which seat up to 76 passengers -- from 226 planes in 2006 to 262 in 2008.

They're just catching up. CAL started this in earnest in 10 years ago and peaked at 272 Embraers in 04 I would guess.

 

[Occam's Razor]

It now has an official media announcement.....

http://www.startribune.com/535/story/1060988.html

An "official media announcement" by whom?

Did you read the article?

1. "The changes are the key elements of the fleet plan, which was distributed by union leaders Friday to Twin Cities-based pilots and obtained by the Star Tribune."

and,

2. "A Northwest spokesman declined Friday to comment on the expected increase in the size of the regional fleet and planned reduction in the number of larger aircraft."

Verbs and nouns. Sometimes they're important to the meaning...

 

[YourPilotFriend]

No, I did not read the article...

 

[Occam's Razor]

The elephant in the living room here is the staffing shortage. Management has one in spades, and has sought relief from the MEC to solve it. ALPA has given them a list of quids necessary to make it happen, but management has balked. It appears management believes they can't grant any contractual changes to settled contracts while the F/A's are still in negotiations.

A "warning shot" to the pilots in the form of a change to the fleet plan is not a new tactic. Had it been a firm part of the Reorg Plan, you'd have seen it in the Disclosure Statement or a formal press release. I think there's a reason it was only given to the pilots...at this exact time.

There are too many variables for NWA to have a firm fleet plan that matches the numbers in the article. If the Airlinks were manned-and-ready, it might be possible. If the manufacturers could deliver the aircraft mentioned on the timeline mentioned, it might be possible. If there were no contingent financial assurances being made to potential investors in the reorg, it might be possible.

Until somebody can answer the question, "What has changed at NWA over the past 12-months that would warrant this change to the fleet plan?", it might be a good idea to watch their feet...and not their rhetoric.

 

[FlyingBS]

9E- 141 CRJ 200
XJ- 49 Saab, 36 CRJ 900
Compass- 36 EMB

262 regional aircraft. No change from previously announced regional plan.