bad driving record

[protegepilot]

My driving license was suspended earlier this year for too many moving violations (speeding tickets). I know this has some impact in the aviation world. Someone told me it even has an impact on a FAA Class One Medical Certificate. How much of an impact does it really have on hiring? training? medical? overall in the aviation world? Can someone explain. Thanks

 

[phil]

Assuming your question is serious and not flame bait, the short answer is that a bad driving has a lot of impact.

Consider how excited an employer is to hand you the responsibility of the future of the company, and the fate of passengers, cargo, and a multi million dollar airplane or helicopter, when you can't handle driving a private car responsibly. Don't think the employer might be too excited? You're right.

When you apply for a medical certificate, you will be asked to fill out FAA Form 8500-8, which is the application for the certificate. On that form, under Section V and W, you will be asked about convictions while driving intoxicated or under the influence, and also about any convictions or administrative actions involving offenses which resulted in the denial, supension or revocation of driving privileges (or which resulted in the attendance of any educational program). You're also asked about history of nontraffic convictions.

These questions do not involve individual traffic offenses; they do not want to know about speeding tickets.

Your driving history will affect your insurability in the air and on the ground, and it will affect your career. I can tell you that I wouldn't be interested in hiring someone for a pilot position that accrued enough violations to lose their driving privileges. Nor would I be keen on hiring someone for any other position when that degree of irresponsibility has been demonstrated.

I think that at this point rather than worrying about who might hire you, it's time to re-evaluate your sense of responsibility. Traffic laws exist for a reason. All laws exist for a reason. I would be arrested for good cause for firing a little 180 grain bullet down a busy street...but you took two thousand pounds of metal and put it on the streets outside of the limitations provided by law...think about that and change your mentality, become more responsible, then seek work. Good luck with it!

 

[na265]

I believe there is also a Q about a history of driving violations. You will have to answer "yes" to that one also. I don't have the regs in front of me, I think you might have to report this to OK City also.

Slow down and drive right, everything Phil said is right on the money.

 

[TOGA]

Geez Phil, ease up. You've never bent any law or rule, ever? Puhleeze. As for the original question . . . been there, done that. You're not in a good situation. The one absolute truth in the other responses is: don't make it worse! You'll want to be able to say: 'look, I changed'. I took six years off from any career advancement, including education, 'cause I knew I'd really screwed the pooch. Not an infraction in 13 years now. From the sounds of it, you didn't screw yourself nearly as bad as I did. For your sake, keep it that way. PM me for more, if you'd like. Good luck.

 

[Gulfstream 200]

everyone gets a ticket or 2 here and there...

but enough to suspend your license - you got a problem.

Like it or not, it WILL count against you. Make sure everything else is squeeky clean b/c you are starting in the hole.

PS - slow down

 

[leardrivr]

Hey man don't listen to Phil's bull**CENSORED****CENSORED****CENSORED****CENSORED**e. I think he is just trying to show you how perfect he is. I had my licsence suspended twice when I was a younger man. Once when I was 17 and again when I was 19. Both were for rediculusly over strick speeding policies my state adopted for young drivers. My driving history has never had an impact on my career. I have flown many different types of jobs and currently serve as a B747 S.I.C. for an International freight airline. What you need to be concerned with are felonys. Those are BAD!. Drunk driving, Controlled substances, ect............. Oh and you don't want any accidents that are your fault. Other than that if you had to have a perfect driving record there would'nt be enough pilots to fly all the planes in the world. What ever you do don't drive 55mph on the highway when everone around you is doing 85mph thinking you are saving your aviation career. You will be creating an unsafe situation and really piss people off. (laugh laugh) you don't have to be superman to be a safe and compatent pilot. You need common sence and great situational awearness. So try to stay out of trouble on the road and look forward to a fulfilling career as an aviator. I apoligize for my terrible spelling and grammer. PM me if you want some more insight.

 

[Ralgha]

Yeah everyone speeds, some more than others, but don't try to justify it by saying the speeding rules are too strict. That's just trying to place the blame on someone else. Take some responsibility for your actions. If you are doing 36 in a 35 zone, you are speeding, it is nobody's fault but yours and you should be prepared to accept the consequences.

Don't come off spouting that BS about me being perfect, I speed sometimes to, the difference is I don't blame someone else for it. I know what I'm doing, and if I get pulled over, I'll accept it, I was wrong.

Saying that going 55 when everyone else is doing 85 creates an unsafe situation is also placing blame. Ask anyone versed in traffic law and they'll tell you that that situation is not an exception to the rule, you would still be speeding, and still subject to a fine if a cop felt inclined to enforce it.

People in this country need to take some responsibility for their actions. That's one of the biggest problems today. It's always "someone else's fault".

 

[leardrivr]

Well ralgha I could not agree more! When I got in trouble for traffic violations I accepted my responsabilty for it and took my punishment without complaint. I am not trying to make excusses for my actions or place blame on anyone else. How ever I do have a problem telling this poor fellow that he should not persue an aviation career because he made a couple of mistakes. Why don't we burn him at the stake while we are at it. We don't offord people to have a second chance in this country anymore? Lets tell this guy how he can overcome this problem instead telling him some bull crap like "I wouldn't be interested in hiring someone for a pilot position that has accured enough violation to lose there driving privilages". Sounds like Phil is stroking his member to me. Lets use the patriot act to search his home and look for terriorest propaganda while were at it. Were do these pilots get this vision that they are some how special or smarter than everone else because the can fly a jet. I like to judge a pilot candidate buy the content of his carector not just his ability to fly. (What kind of citizen, husband, parent he/she is........) I bet mister place judgment (Phil) may have a perfect driving record. He may be a good aviator but if you asked someone he knows that is not involved in aviation I bet you will find he is a aragont self loving jerk. Sound like anyone you know? No wonder most of you guy's are divorced.

 

[wheelsup]

Ralgha,

I think he meant his state's policies toward younger drivers were strict if you got a speeding ticket, not that speed laws are strict.

I.e., in NH, if you get a moving violation (doesn't matter what, ANY moving violation) your license is automatically suspended for 20 days if you're under the age of 18. I got a moving violation 3 weeks before my 18th bday, and my license was suspended, so I have to forever check the box that says "has your license ever been suspended". It sucks. I know. That's the way life is. Unfair? I believe so - I ran a red light and that messes with the rest of my career. Course it was my fault, I chose to run it, and I realize that...but still unfair in my eyes.

~wheelsup

 

[TOGA]

WheelsUp -

So, is your avatar a picture of you running that red light? Sorry, couldn't resist.


That is one thing I forgot to add to my first post on this subject . . . you have to take responsibility for YOUR mistakes. Do not try to proffer excuses, just own it.

 

[leardrivr]

Wheelsup,
Sucks don't it. Same thing happened to me in Mi. I talked to one of my nephews the other day. He is 17 now and it seems things are even worse for the youngster these days.

 

[wheelsup]

lear,

I'm just about to the point of applying for a 121/135 job, well within the next year. Have you encountered problems by checking that box on your applications? This was back in 97-98, so awhile ago, but it still blows that I have to answer yes to that question..

~wheelsup

 

[Kingairrick]

Protege;
Not enough info in your question. What was your record like before the problem? How about since?
My DL was suspended in 2000 for 4 speeding tickets in 12 months. 30 day suspension. I hadn't had a ticket for years before, and havn't been stopped since I got it back. I drove around 70000 miles in 1999,2000, mostly on the highway.
When asked about my driving record, I pull a copy of my record out of my case and show exactly what happened. 4 tickets, all for around 10 mph over the limit. Guess what, I was speeding. It was my fault. I'm not a dangerous or irresponsible person. I had lots of exposure due to lots of miles, and a run of bad luck.

By the way, I did report it on my medical application. There was no effect. I have a 1st class, no limitations. I am a PIC on turbine equipment, and my bosses know all about the suspension. My insurance underwriter knows about it also. He doesn't care (I did have to discuss it with him.)

I don't know phil or any of the other doom and gloomers above, but if they say they never break a traffic law, then I wouldn't want to hire someone who wouldn't be honest with me. Everyone breaks traffic laws, in Tampa, if you aren't speeding you are causing accidents behind you.

Your career is not over. You need to slow down and be careful. You need to evaluate how you got the tickets and make sure that you don't get more. Accept responsibility for the mistake, learn from it, and move on.

On the other hand, if drugs or alcohol were involved, practice the phrase;
"Would you like to supersize that for 27 cents more?"

 

[generaltso]

On the other hand, if drugs or alcohol were involved, practice the phrase;
"Would you like to supersize that for 27 cents more?"

Supersizing costs more than tha...

wait a minute, I am pathetic

 

[minitour]

Supersizing costs more than tha...

wait a minute, I am pathetic

nah...you're not that bad...well maybe a little...

most of the people I know have to say Biggie size....

For some reason "Supersizing" sounds a lot better than "Biggie" sizing

-mini

 

[cessna_driver2]

Totally off topic, but could too many DUI's count as bad moral character? As in the third requirement of the ATP?


Just something I thought about. And who decides on the moral character.

 

[avbug]

FAA Chief Counsel Legal Interpretation:


SEPT. 19, 1979

MR. COURTNEY J. VAN RIPER, JR.

Dear Mr. Van Riper:

This is in reply to your letter requesting a clarification of the moral character clauses of the Federal Aviation Regulations relevant to an applicant for a ground instructor certificate. Your student was denied a certificate because of a past conviction in his record.

You state that the only restriction involving mortal character that you were able to find applies to the issuance of an airline transport pilot certificate. However, section 143.9 of the Federal Aviation Regulations does provide that to be eligible for a ground instructor certificate a person must, among other things, be of good moral character.

A criminal conviction is not, in and of itself, grounds for denying a certificate on the basis of moral character. In determining whether a certificate may be issued, all relevant factors are considered. These include the nature of the felony for which the applicant was convicted, the number and frequency of the incidents involved, and the relationship of the incident or incidents to his responsibilities as a certificate holder. A conviction alone does not demonstrate a lack of capacity to display the required degree of care, judgement, and responsibility.

We do not know whether the General Aviation district Office involved denied your student a ground instructor examination solely on the basis of a conviction, without review of the facts involved. For this reason, we are sending a copy of this letter to the FAA Southwest Regional Office in Fort Worth, which will forward it to the appropriate GADO. Accordingly, you may wish to advise your student to contact the GADO to determine whether the decision will remain the same after review of our opinion.

Sincerely,
EDWARD. P. FABERMAN
Acting Assistant Chief Counsel
Regulations and Enforcement Division

 

[leardrivr]

lear,

I'm just about to the point of applying for a 121/135 job, well within the next year. Have you encountered problems by checking that box on your applications? This was back in 97-98, so awhile ago, but it still blows that I have to answer yes to that question..

~wheelsup

whellsup,

I have not encountered any problems at all. I have never been asked about my driving record during an interview however I did have a copy of it and was prepared to explain its contents. I think Kingairrick said it perfectly. As long as you don't have any felonys, drunk drivings, drug busts, rapes......... I think you know were i'm going with this. You should be ok. When you interview they should be looking at the whole picture you present not a couple of mistakes you may have made along the way. Besides the guy interviewing you may be on the interview board because he got a drunk driving or busted his medical. You never know. Don't listen to these god complex ninkenpoopes who think they can speak for everyone. Pilots are people who have pasts. Some of its good Some of its not so good. A good company dosen't look for perfect pilots. The want great pilots who are good people. Go out there and show them you belong! Good luck and pm me once and awhile and let me now how you are your job search is going.

 

[generaltso]

nah...you're not that bad...well maybe a little...

most of the people I know have to say Biggie size....

For some reason "Supersizing" sounds a lot better than "Biggie" sizing

-mini

Yeah I like it when you use the wrong thing for the fast food joint you are in. Like you go to Wendys and say you want it value sized and they look at you like you are crazy and have no idea what you are talking about. Go in to Burger King and say super-sized and they think your nuts.

The worst is Roy Rodgers... "Round up size". I am almost too embarrased to order it. Almost.

 

[protegepilot]

hey thanks for replying guys. well, my license is suspended for 4 speeding tickets in one year. Just like kingairrick, I was caught going around 10mph. Im not blaming anyone, it was all my fault. I just wanted to get your opinions of the situation that I'm in and my future plan of action. Phil and others, I agree that I need to slow down and be more responsible especially if I am going to be pursuing a career in commercial aviation. toga, ralgha, leardrivr, and kingairrick, mucho thanks to you guys. you guys kept the light shining at the end of the tunnel for me. to everyone else, i will slow down and be more responsible or else im really gonna have to start practicing 'would you like to supersize it for 27 cents.?'