B6 190 gets add'l package

[lowecur]

Thought this may interest those perspective pilots for the 190. Looks like B6 is paying an add'l $60M for this package over the original contract. Of course they probably really don't have to pay for it, as I'm sure Mayor Bloomberg will pick up the tab from the taxpayers. I guess this may justify those payrates, since it sounds like the flightdeck will have less to do.



7/22/2004
EMBRAER 190 FOR JETBLUE TO FEATURE DUAL HEAD-UP DISPLAYS
Embraer and Flight Dynamics, a business of Rockwell Collins, are developing a dual Head-up Guidance System (HGS®) for the EMBRAER 190 under an initial $60 million contract from launch customer JetBlue Airways.

When the system is operational next year, it will mark the first commercial use of dual head up displays.

Rockwell Collins’ Flight Dynamics HGS-5600 Head-up Guidance System uses LCD-based technology for enhanced image quality and improved reliability. The system is designed to provide pilots with enhanced situational awareness in all phases of flight, and improve crew efficiency and aircraft operational performance. The HGS will also provide Category IIIa guidance-to-touchdown for operations in poor weather conditions and guidance for low-visibility takeoff operations. The system will be integrated with the Honeywell PRIMUS Epic avionics systems on the EMBRAER 190. JetBlue has 100 EMBRAER 190s on firm order and holds options for 100 additional aircraft. “One of the primary benefits of this new system will be that our EMBRAER 190 flight crews will now be able to fly every approach the same way, in good weather and in bad, from the left seat or the right seat, to ILS-equipped runways or on non-precision approaches. This will reduce our flight crew training costs and increase the margins of safety in our operation,” according to Usto Schultz, Vice-President of JetBlue’s EMBRAER 190 Program.

 

[ASH]

Ahh, but does this have an impact on any future International operations??

I know HUDS are popular on the foreign airliners. We have some -145 at CHQ that were equipped with them. I think from Greece.

By the way, I am in no way implying that the present pay rates should be allowed to prevail. HUD or no HUD....sheesh...

 

[canyonblue]

I guess this may justify those payrates, since it sounds like the flightdeck will have less to do.

Moron, I know you're not a pilot, but have you ever been in a plane before. Oh yea, it's all push button now easy to fly. We have the HUD at SWA on the CA's side. You have more to do, plenty more to do, on ANY hand flown CAT III approach.

 

[lowecur]

Moron, I know you're not a pilot, but have you ever been in a plane before. Yes I have. Oh yea, it's all push button now easy to fly. That's exactly what I'm implying. We have the HUD at SWA on the CA's side. OK, so if the Captain has the runs and cannot land the plane, I guess you're in alot of trouble. You have more to do, plenty more to do, on ANY hand flown CAT III approach. I know a CAT III storm has winds of 110-130mph. It must be tough doing that kind of approach.

.....

 

[Ace757]

.....

lowecur, a CAT III approach has nothing to do with a storm. It has to do with how low you can go on the approach before going missed if the runway is not in sight. Thats alright though...your just an ignorant management type

 

[NewBlue]

lowecur, a CAT III approach has nothing to do with a storm.

You don't suppose that could have been some of that sarcasm stuff we hear about do you?

 

[thruthemurk]

Could we just keep the non pilots off this board?? Lowecur your ignorance is cluttering up the hallway. you are a one trick pony - we know all about your agenda so hit the bricks and head over to the investment forum for management wannabe's.

thanks

 

[FlyBoeingJets]

Lowecur,

You are cracking me up.



For those of you that don't know, he is just trying to spin up folks that like to hate JetBlue. JetBlue is now targeting the often yield rich regional market. A scary proposition. I think big change is ahead if labor and management at the regionals do not act appropriately. The big furloughs we see at the majors will soon come at the regionals.

And they are doing it with a merged seniority list (EMB-190 and A-320) under one company. Who knows maybe we will see more of the same soon after. Is it the same as a B-scale, I think so. But that is life in America, get used to it.

 

[General Lee]

Lowecur,


I know you like to be entertaining, and some of your quotes have really made me laugh---but this one takes the cake. You are showing your flying ignorance here. Sure, HUDs are a great tool to help keep operations "flowing" in times of low visability---but it still takes lots of judgement and skill to fly those planes even with the huds. HUDs also don't "take away the work"---they actually create MORE work. Normally if the weather and visability is down---an aircraft would enter a holding pattern to wait until the vis comes back up to adequate requirements. These huds will allow the pilots to "get back to work" and set up for a more precise and exact approach---that is a little more dangerous. Our 738s have HUDs--and once you land in the fog with the help of the hud---then you have to taxi in almost zero zero conditions---which is much harder and can be risky(you don't use the hud on the ground). What was once a normal taxi in---(lazy by your standards) now has turned into a dangerous guessing game of trying to follow lights on the ground and trying not to get hit by ground movements--like catering trucks rushing to their next airplane. Your attitude here shows your lack of respect for our hard work and the training involved. But, what else should I expect from an analyst---someone who doesn't have the ballz to actually go out and start a business---rather someone who likes to critique everyone else and not take the blame when they were absolutely WRONG. But, I still like most of your entertaining comments.....

Bye Bye--General Lee

 

[lowecur]

Lowecur,


I know you like to be entertaining, and some of your quotes have really made me laugh---but this one takes the cake. You are showing your flying ignorance here. I never said I was "flying" smart. Sure, HUDs are a great tool to help keep operations "flowing" in times of low visability---but it still takes lots of judgement and skill to fly those planes even with the huds. I agree, but I don't think anyone in the States has duel HUDS, do they? HUDs also don't "take away the work"---they actually create MORE work. Normally if the weather and visability is down---an aircraft would enter a holding pattern to wait until the vis comes back up to adequate requirements. These huds will allow the pilots to "get back to work" and set up for a more precise and exact approach---that is a little more dangerous. Our 738s have HUDs(left & right seat?)--and once you land in the fog with the help of the hud---then you have to taxi in almost zero zero conditions---which is much harder and can be risky(you don't use the hud on the ground). What was once a normal taxi in---(lazy by your standards) now has turned into a dangerous guessing game of trying to follow lights on the ground and trying not to get hit by ground movements--like catering trucks rushing to their next airplane. I think Greyhound drivers have this problem also, except the catering truck part. Your attitude here shows your lack of respect for our hard work and the training involved. I didn't know it was that time of the month. But, what else should I expect from an analyst---someone who doesn't have the ballz to actually go out and start a business(actually, I have started 2 very successful insurance agency's that I have sold for a nice profit)---rather someone who likes to critique everyone else and not take the blame when they were absolutely WRONG. My aren't we testy. But, I still like most of your entertaining comments.....All is forgiven, but not forgotten.

Bye Bye--General Lee

.....

 

[lowecur]

Lowecur,

You are cracking me up.



For those of you that don't know, he is just trying to spin up folks that like to hate JetBlue. JetBlue is now targeting the often yield rich regional market. A scary proposition. I think big change is ahead if labor and management at the regionals do not act appropriately. The big furloughs we see at the majors will soon come at the regionals.

And they are doing it with a merged seniority list (EMB-190 and A-320) under one company. Who knows maybe we will see more of the same soon after. Is it the same as a B-scale, I think so. But that is life in America, get used to it.

Thanks Boeing. At least some people have a clue.

 

[SWA_Proud]

Anyone ride in an EMB, they are the most uncomfortable aircraft on the market........unless you count the metroliner. It doesn't matter if it is 2 and 2 it is still a very cramped place to spend more than 15 minutes.

 

[FLB717]

Lowecur,

Enough with the multi-color copy crap ok! Say what you have to say, don't make everything a rainbow quote,(unless you are into the rainbow things, but i can't ask that by law) after a while people stop reading your posts.

 

[lowecur]

Lowecur,

Enough with the multi-color copy crap ok! Say what you have to say, don't make everything a rainbow quote,(unless you are into the rainbow things, but i can't ask that by law) after a while people stop reading your posts. NO.

.....

 

[h25b]

"Anyone ride in an EMB, they are the most uncomfortable aircraft on the market........unless you count the metroliner. It doesn't matter if it is 2 and 2 it is still a very cramped place to spend more than 15 minutes."

I agree totally about the ERJ 135/140/145 series. Pretty cramped quarters. However the EMB 170/190 series is a totally different proposition. Supposedly much larger cabin with real overhead bins.

The real problem came when regional jets started taking over longer mainline routes instead of just replacing turboprop routes. Anything over 1:00 in these things kill me... Sooner or later passenger preference will hurt the regionals as the LCC's start providing larger, more comfortable aircraft on similar routes. I personally haven't been on board one of the new EMB-170's, but speaking to those who have, it is an impressive aircraft. JetBlue's move to fly these aircraft, while somewhat risky I believe will allow them to start bringing these larger aircraft head to head with the regionals at a very competitive cost. It's this idea that has lead to the low payrates.

 

[FlyBoeingJets]

Back to the original thread topic....

Lowecur,

I don't think dual HUD's will be an advantage. Training costs will actually go up if you train the FO to use it. It is easy to learn for a Captain during upgrade and FO's don't get to do the CAT III approach anyway. HUD's cost money and two is twice as expensive as one.

Some have called the HUD a crutch. It's easy to use and hurts your basic instrument skills if you use it too much. And it kills your SA on engine instruments. I'm old fashioned and think the FO ought to have as much experience as possible flying the regular instruments. At least one pilot needs to monitor other instruments when a HUD approach is flown, IMHO.

Going to dual HUD's is an interesting milestone in aviation. Maybe the option will impress some buyers in parts of the world where pilots are not as well trained (or skilled). I think if aviation had started with HUD's we would never have developed the more challenging traditional instrumentation.

I'm starting to believe the regional world will be shaken (not stirred) in the next couple of years. The 'medium' size markets will go to 70-100 seat jets, the small to <50, and large to >135. The large may be further stratafied by SW sized markets (>135) and JetBlue sized (>156) and above. ORD's program to reduce flights will help that along.

 

[lowecur]

Boeing

It's interesting if you read the reply from the B6 spokesman. He is actually talking about using the HUD for every landing. Again, as GL has stated, "my flying ignorance is showing," but I would think this would hurt a pilot's skill level in the long run. Also, since it's tied to the Honeywell Avionics, should the system shut down for some reason, it could affect the flight safety.

 

[General Lee]

Lowecur,


When guys fly the HUD--they do get used to it. We have many 737-800 Capts that swear they won't leave the airplane because of the HUD. They love it. As far as having two in one airplane---I think that is a waste. Sure, it would be a "nice" thing to have---but having 3 FMS computers (CDUs) would be great too--but not necessary. I do advocate them buying atleast one HUD---that will allow them to fly in and out of low vis airports. Flying with a HUD can also show you exactly where the plane will touchdown on the runway (or short of it), and it can show cloud heights in front of you--so you can decide (the Capt) whether or not to climb or descend. It also allows the Capt to keep an eye out for that runway straight ahead, without having to look down and check his/her speed, etc.... It is a great tool, and I flew the HUD in my 737-800 training in the sim a few years back. I did a hand flown Cat 3 approach---and it was amazing. So, one would be great, 2 would be a waste. (IMO) But, how about using the saved money to "up" the first officer pay to a livable Yonkers wage?


Bye Bye--General Lee

 

[Mikes Apartment]

The quality of pilots that actually want to get hired there with those pay rates is going to be so poor, they'll ned HUDs

 

[General Lee]

Mikes Apartment (a great porn site),


Good point! They might also need fixed gear on those Emb-190s.(just jokin dudes!)


Bye Bye--General Lee