Avantair

[aeolian]

By the way, Im not buyin that because there's an extra lifting surface, ice doesnt form on somethin hanging out in the ice...thats ridiculous. Ice is gonna form on anything hanging out there.



Ice might form on it but, neither the tail of the B737 nor A320 are de/anti-iced. Maybe it's cause they are not (principally) lifting surfaces.

 

[RideTheWind]

texasskisser is obviously not a jet pilot, 3 of the jets I've flown don't have tail anti or deicing, if this is the first he has heard of an airplane with no tail ice protection he's clueless.

 

[Texasskicker]

Windbag

Hey windy, put down that porno mag for a couple of minutes and read this.

http://aar400.tc.faa.gov/Programs/FlightSafety/icing/eaihbk.htm

Im not sayin the FEDs made a mistake by not requiring de/anti ice on the tail. If you read my comment, I said its gotta pick up ice when in icing conditions. Thats it, thats all there is to it.

In today's fleet of corporate aircraft, including King Air, Citations, and many others, the horizontal stabs have a system for ice protection. RJ's have it.

End of discussion for me. Can't stand the imbiciles.

Tx.

 

[RideTheWind]

So texasskiss,


What is the biggest plane you've flown to have never heard of no tail ice protection?

 

[Turbinehead]

All this talk about tail and protection

texasskisser is obviously not a jet pilot, 3 of the jets I've flown don't have tail anti or deicing, if this is the first he has heard of an airplane with no tail ice protection he's clueless.

Boyz need to stop all this talk about tail. I agree you be tapping "some a dat azz" you better be using some protection.

That be a mighty fine azz in that picture Ridethewind. Can't see what she got up top. You sure that is a she?

Dang its getting hot in here.

Hey yo Ridethewind. you said you flew 3 jets. How come you got only 1 type rating homie?

 

[RideTheWind]

*******
Ride the Wind is now "riding the pine" (baseball term, you perv's..)for a week. Don't post links to porn/porn sites.

EF

 

[avbug]

Wow...lots of controversy and maudlin arguing over such a simple topic. The Piaggio has hot wings, heated by a small tube that runs adjacent to the leading edge. The edge surface itself isn't heated directly by the bleed air, but by radiationa and conduction (rather than convection). The duct tube runs very close to the leading edge, and radiates heat to the edge.

Yes, many aircraft with hot wings have shiny leading edges. This precludes damage to paint (ever seen a bleed leak in an engine nacelle turn the overlying paint bown?), and makes for a neater appearance. It also means that the paint, constantly heated and frozen, isn't as likely to chip off and create a poor appearance.

In the case of the Piaggio, the surface itself isn't heated directly. Further, the wing on the Piaggio is more critical. Most wings have a boundary layer separation at approximately 1/4 chord, whereas the Piaggio doesn't see this until approximately 1/2 chord. Leading edge continuity and smoothness is important to the aerodynamics of the airplane...let's face it, they wrung a lot of performance out of the design, and the aerodynamics are everything to that airplane. It's got the wing area of a Cessna 182 and the weight some five times that. Paint chips, even screw heads in the leading edge cause airflow separation and loss of aerodynamic efficiency...for that reason when maintenance is performed by removing or reinstalling the leading edge, the screw heads are covered with aerodynamic smoothing compound and the edge blended and painted.

In any case, the main wing leading edge is bleed air. The forward wing a blanket, the nacelle lips boots, the engine oil cooler inlet bleed air (some painted, some not), the windscreens are electrical, same for the angle of attack indicator/stall vane, ice detector, pitot tubes, and static ports.

The horizontal and vertical stabs are not heated nor protected by dedicated anti-ice or deice systems. Instead, four exhausts point backward, putting out considerable warm gasses that are distributed by the propeller. In some two hundred hours (I believe) of ice testing in flight behind ice sources, the factory couldn't ice the tail.

Numerous aircraft don't have ice protection on the tail. None have a system for circulating a cone of hot gases exernally over the tail to preclude icing, however. The Avanti does.

If you think they're interesting to look at, try working on one!

Someone commented on the room inside. I've ridden in the back, and I can say first hand that they're comfortable airplanes. Quiet, and comfortable. They're a lot bigger inside than they look. My first impression when I saw one on a ramp years ago, was that it was unusual looking. I asked the pilot if I could have a look inside. He invited me in for a sit down, and silly as it seems, the first thing I thought of was "clown car." You know the cars that look small outside, but thirty clowns climb out of when the door opens...like that. The amount of room is deceiving. Far from a clown car, however, it's a serious business aircraft and I'm quite impressed with the design.

 

[illeagle]

So how does one get hired to fly one of these sweet machines? Faxed the resume, willing to work as an FO, live nearby, chompin at the bit, but no carrot. Do they frown on unannounced visits from eager pilots in the Caldwell offices???

 

[Texasskicker]

Just for posterior ... i mean posterity sake

*******
Ride the Wind is now "riding the pine" (baseball term, you perv's..)for a week. Don't post links to porn/porn sites.

EF

I'm rolling on the floor laughing my a** off at this. For the sake of posterity, I had to preserve the "spankin'" Ride got for good reason. Im sure your mama always told you those dirty magazines were gonna make you blind. Now for a week at least, you are prolly not blind but your voice is gone and that conspicuous dunce cap is shinin' bright in the light.

AVBUG:

Having read the AIN article someone linked earlier, it does not paint a flattering picture of the Avanti, but that was a few years ago. I understand with the Avanti II many of these problems have been addressed.

So, I gotta ask.

The Piaggio pirhouette. (sp) Any truth to this; to get into the cockpit, you have to do a pirhouette that involves lifting the cushion with one hand, grabbing the handle with the other and dancing yourself into the cockpit, as described in the AIN article?

Hey, I would jump at the opportunity to fly one of these machines. Definitely a competitive product in today's market.

Tx.

 

[avbug]

You and I must have read different articles. I read the same article, and I thought it to be quite complimentary of the machine. The author was obviously impressed. I can tell you a little about the airplane from a maintenance perspective, and will limit my thoughts only to the fact that some of the very few shortcomings outlined at the end of the article have been addressed by service bulletins and parts changes.

What impressed me about the airplane was it's speed and economy. I believe it's set something like eight world speed records in it's class. It has the same fuel burns as a King Air 200, but is about 110 knots faster, and half again as high in the cruise altitudes. It's quiet, and roomy, and I don't personally see where anybody has much room to complain about the airplane.

I was very interested to go back and review the various comments about the operator in question, here...Avantair. Not a lot is written about them, but what really interested me was the complete lack of negative information. Everybody seems to like the airplane, everybody seems to like the company. In today's industry, that's saying a whole lot.

I don't know anything about you personally, or your background, but you seem to spend a lot more time here tearing folks down and insulting them than contributing to the discussion. Rather than gloating over whatever occured with ridethewind, how about sticking to topic and keeping the board a place where professionals can act like adults? that is not too much to ask. I noticed you dropped the cutsie literary drawl long enough to insult people by talking down to them about heated or protected flying surfaces. That wasn't necessary.

I suspect some here are genuinly interested in finding work, and if Avantair or any other firm has something to offer, then let those seeking them find it. They can do this without all the childishness thrown in here; it's not necessary, it's not professional, and it's unwarranted.