Avantair QOL and information?

[fam62c]

I was just wondering what anyone knows about Avantair. There doesn't seem to be much information that I can find other than their Corporate home page and airlinepilotcentral. I haven't heard anything bad about them here and that sounds encouraging. Does anybody work there and if so do you like it? What are the duty days and rest periods like? How are you generally treated. I remember sitting inside an Avanti at the Oshkosh EAA event about 15 years ago and thinking that it was a really cool airplane and ahead of it's time. It must be a good bird if they are still buying more new ones. Any information is appreciated.

 

[On Your Six]

I was just wondering what anyone knows about Avantair. There doesn't seem to be much information that I can find other than their Corporate home page and airlinepilotcentral. I haven't heard anything bad about them here and that sounds encouraging. Does anybody work there and if so do you like it? What are the duty days and rest periods like? How are you generally treated. I remember sitting inside an Avanti at the Oshkosh EAA event about 15 years ago and thinking that it was a really cool airplane and ahead of it's time. It must be a good bird if they are still buying more new ones. Any information is appreciated.

This is the right forum. There are plenty of Avantair pilots on this forum who can answer questions. From what I understand, the company is growing quickly (selling a lot of airplanes) but its financials are in need of improvement (it needs more airplanes to reduce ferry costs which are high). Check out this link:

http://airlinepilotcentral.com/airlines/fractional/avantair.html

 

[fam62c]

This is the right forum. There are plenty of Avantair pilots on this forum who can answer questions. From what I understand, the company is growing quickly (selling a lot of airplanes) but its financials are in need of improvement (it needs more airplanes to reduce ferry costs which are high). Check out this link:

http://airlinepilotcentral.com/airlines/fractional/avantair.html

Thanks;

Don't they pass the costs of the reposition flights on to the customers? At some point if you are losing money you need to charge more for the product. If you don't have the pricing power to do that then you don't really have a viable business. The Avanti is a neat plane but I wonder if the customers aren't willing to pay as much because it's not a jet. I always wondered over the years why Avanti didn't reconfigure the airframe with some really efficient jet engines, the sleek airframe seems like a natural for jet power and the fuel usage of the newer jet engines is very reasonable. I'll bet it would also really reduce MX costs for the airframe with no props and less vibration on everything else. It's still a cool plane either way.

 

[Skimatic]

Yes the financial reports are not good. Keep losing money and I don;t know when it will stop. It is now easy to track Avantair, their stock symbol is AAIR on the OTC and financials are public.

As a pilot you are at the mercy of the ops department. I pay attention to OPS and to nothing else except the quarterly financial reporting. You will have long days of 12-14 hours, rest for 10, then do it over again.

Ever changing ops tempo environment. If you easily frustrate dont come here. Internal communication within OPS is poor. One side of the room doesn't talk to the other. Damn blackberry always goes off with changes. Roll with the punches. I running across fellow pilots who admit "I came here for the experience and now I need to move on."

I have had no pay problems, I don't volunteer for anything, I try to adhere to their rules, and I have learned a lot in the 3 years I;ve been here. You will work hard here.

But alas I too have watched myself frustrate and burn up within. I am actively looking at other things.

FO pay is 35K, which is somewhat low compared to others, per diem is good at 2.00/hr, vacation policy is kind of screwy, 7/7 schedule, hotels are generally good.

I can't predict the future but I'm always wary of aviation companies.

Come on over if you need the experience, want a fast life, and associate with some decent folks (pilots). They are in a growth mode, the next year will tell a lot.

 

[fam62c]

Yes the financial reports are not good. Keep losing money and I don;t know when it will stop. It is now easy to track Avantair, their stock symbol is AAIR on the OTC and financials are public.

As a pilot you are at the mercy of the ops department. I pay attention to OPS and to nothing else except the quarterly financial reporting. You will have long days of 12-14 hours, rest for 10, then do it over again.

Ever changing ops tempo environment. If you easily frustrate dont come here. Internal communication within OPS is poor. One side of the room doesn't talk to the other. Damn blackberry always goes off with changes. Roll with the punches. I running across fellow pilots who admit "I came here for the experience and now I need to move on."

I have had no pay problems, I don't volunteer for anything, I try to adhere to their rules, and I have learned a lot in the 3 years I;ve been here. You will work hard here.

But alas I too have watched myself frustrate and burn up within. I am actively looking at other things.

FO pay is 35K, which is somewhat low compared to others, per diem is good at 2.00/hr, vacation policy is kind of screwy, 7/7 schedule, hotels are generally good.

I can't predict the future but I'm always wary of aviation companies.

Come on over if you need the experience, want a fast life, and associate with some decent folks (pilots). They are in a growth mode, the next year will tell a lot.

Thanks;

I don't need the experience, I've got lots of that. Don't get me wrong, you can always learn new things and every new job has a steep learning curve but I'm way beyond the "time building" stage. I'm looking for a stable employer that pays decently, allows me to have a schedule where I can have a life outside of the job and allows me to live where I am now. I think that the long days/short rest periods are common at fractionals. I have friends at NetJets who complain about this as well, I think it just goes with the territory. I would guess that some of the disorganization is understandable for a growing company that is in a business where things are constantly changing. The important thing about a company is whether or not they are constantly striving to improve their methods and their operation. The best companies are always the ones where the management team is constantly looking to make improvement and solve problems. One thing that I like about fractionals is that their very existance depends on customer service and if they treat their flight crews badly they will have unhappy aircraft owners and will ultimately fail to survive. Airlines don't worry about this so much because their passengers just want a cheap ticket.

Thanks for the information and good luck in whatever you choose to do. Be careful as you change jobs because every employer has it's hidden landmines. Make sure you don't trade one set of problems for another. The best gauge of any company is talking to the employees. If the majority of the people working somewhere seem to be happy then the job is probably OK. There will always be a few complainers who will never be happy but if lots of people are unhappy with the company stay away.

 

[fam62c]

Another question;

Does anybody choose to stay at Avantair as a career or do all the pilots move on? Does the company view itself as a career employer or do they want constant pilot turnover?

Thanks

 

[Flybet3]

Another question;

Does anybody choose to stay at Avantair as a career or do all the pilots move on? Does the company view itself as a career employer or do they want constant pilot turnover?

Thanks

Pilots that work there usually just work there for a bit and leave. The only ones that hang around are the older guys that live in FL and are tooooo old to start over somewhere else. Everyone that is young enough will work there anywhere from 6 months to 2 years and bail.
Avantair viewes its self as many things, they call them selves a career employer, and employer that offers competitive pay, and blah blah blah. But in all honesty avantair really is a place to get a paycheck/experience until the next job comes around. Alot of people go there b/c of the quick upgrade time, but in all honesty the few captains that have moved to bigger and better things is b/c they had previous jet experience (atleast the ones I met). On the other hand yeah the Piaggio is a neat airplane, but I'm pretty sure that Piaggio time is not really going to get you a job in Jetblue, Fedex or Southwest.
I honestly think that you shouldn't waste your time my friend. You will get on board with them, and within a few months come to realize that you are ready to move on. You get perdiem, but they fly you like a motherf**** to the point were you dont have time to eat, and then when you request catering well it's like asking a complete stranger for $1000. Try netjets, CS, and even flex. But stay away from Options and Avantair. Both companies are losing money, they work you like a dog, dont really pay well and are runned by greedy crooks. Good luck.

 

[A300FE]

FO pay is 35K, which is somewhat low compared to others, per diem is good at 2.00/hr, vacation policy is kind of screwy, 7/7 schedule, hotels are generally good.

I could not find the answer to this question. I heard you do not get paid during training, you only get a perdiem check at the end of training. Do you get $48 per day? and for how long? I don't expect the training to be as long as a 121 operator. How long is it?

Thanks.

 

[Flybet3]

I could not find the answer to this question. I heard you do not get paid during training, you only get a perdiem check at the end of training. Do you get $48 per day? and for how long? I don't expect the training to be as long as a 121 operator. How long is it?

Thanks.

About 5 to 6 weeks I think. And yes you only get perdiem.

 

[RollandPull]

I have been at Avantair for many years. Myself, as well as other “young guys” who don’t all live in Florida (26 gateway cities) do see this as a career destination job. The company has grown from 1 aircraft in 2002 to 46 aircraft currently. The delivery rate of one new Avanti II every three weeks last year is expected to continue this year. Current orders through 2011 would bring aircraft totals to 114. What I like best about it here is the incremental improvements. By the way, our seniority list is nearly 200 pilots now, if what Flybait3 said was true then we would have to hire and train up to 400 pilots a year to keep up.

Flybait3 also has his training time off by 2 – 3 weeks. Initial training is 21 - 22 days start to finish including travel. Hotel room (no sharing), and transportation are furnished. Per diem check is issued at the conclusion of training.

Funding has been an issue for Avantair. The company has transitioned from the CEO using his home as collateral, to private funding out of Reno to private funding out of Palm Beach and now Avantair is a publicly traded company. Pretty impressive accomplishment if you ask me. I have no trouble getting a home loan but cant imagine getting some one to fund an upstart aviation company.

Avantair is not propped up (no pun intended) by the Warren Buffet Empire or any aircraft manufacture like the bigger/older four. (Well, Flight Options was a manufacture affiliate until Raytheon pulled out). Avantair must make money or the investors will pull the plug. When I read the reports I see a company trending in the right direction.

In addressing duty time and tour issues, the company is coming out of a growth spurt and pilot to aircraft ratios are getting better. Using the seniority list and the aircraft numbers it is easy to see why we worked as hard as we did in ’07. The number of aircraft deliveries since the first Avanti II came on the property has been astounding.

Fractional is not for everybody. It is very demanding when we are on, but the time off is great and the problems are predictable.

 

[PilotChapin]

I have been at Avantair for many years. Myself, as well as other “young guys” who don’t all live in Florida (26 gateway cities) do see this as a career destination job. The company has grown from 1 aircraft in 2002 to 46 aircraft currently. The delivery rate of one new Avanti II every three weeks last year is expected to continue this year. Current orders through 2011 would bring aircraft totals to 114. What I like best about it here is the incremental improvements. By the way, our seniority list is nearly 200 pilots now, if what Flybait3 said was true then we would have to hire and train up to 400 pilots a year to keep up.

Flybait3 also has his training time off by 2 – 3 weeks. Initial training is 21 - 22 days start to finish including travel. Hotel room (no sharing), and transportation are furnished. Per diem check is issued at the conclusion of training.

Funding has been an issue for Avantair. The company has transitioned from the CEO using his home as collateral, to private funding out of Reno to private funding out of Palm Beach and now Avantair is a publicly traded company. Pretty impressive accomplishment if you ask me. I have no trouble getting a home loan but cant imagine getting some one to fund an upstart aviation company.

Avantair is not propped up (no pun intended) by the Warren Buffet Empire or any aircraft manufacture like the bigger/older four. (Well, Flight Options was a manufacture affiliate until Raytheon pulled out). Avantair must make money or the investors will pull the plug. When I read the reports I see a company trending in the right direction.

In addressing duty time and tour issues, the company is coming out of a growth spurt and pilot to aircraft ratios are getting better. Using the seniority list and the aircraft numbers it is easy to see why we worked as hard as we did in ’07. The number of aircraft deliveries since the first Avanti II came on the property has been astounding.

Fractional is not for everybody. It is very demanding when we are on, but the time off is great and the problems are predictable.

Last I heard the CEO and DO had a couple of screenames on flightinfo. Soooo I'm guessing this is a new one?

 

[A300FE]

Flybait3 also has his training time off by 2 – 3 weeks. Initial training is 21 - 22 days start to finish including travel. Hotel room (no sharing), and transportation are furnished. Per diem check is issued at the conclusion of training.

Thank you. I did not think the training was as long as a 121 airline with 20-30 new hires a month. I talked with a recruiter for a regional that told me to expect 2 month, maybe more, depending on sim availability. How can they pretend people to live on $300 a week for that long? They should give you the address of the food stamps office when hired….

 

[A300FE]

But stay away from Options and Avantair. Both companies are losing money, they work you like a dog, dont really pay well and are runned by greedy crooks. Good luck.

Looks like you never had to work for a 121 supplemental freighter.

 

[corpflunkie]

Like RollandPull, I have been at Avantair for over 2yrs and my goal is career. While the company is FAR from perfect, There have been steady improvements since I started. Unlike what Flybet claims, crewmeals are now provided if you have less than 90min between turns. No questions asked, no deduction from your perdiem. Yes the financials are a little rough right now, but we don't have uncle Warren. If the company keeps in the right direction, it will be a career in my opinion. And no, I'm not Mgmt just check my posting history.

 

[Flybet3]

Looks like you never had to work for a 121 supplemental freighter.

No thank God I haven't but I've heard it's a biaaatch.

 

[mainiac]

Like RollandPull, I have been at Avantair for over 2yrs and my goal is career. While the company is FAR from perfect, There have been steady improvements since I started. Unlike what Flybet claims, crewmeals are now provided if you have less than 90min between turns. No questions asked, no deduction from your perdiem. Yes the financials are a little rough right now, but we don't have uncle Warren. If the company keeps in the right direction, it will be a career in my opinion. And no, I'm not Mgmt just check my posting history.

Second all that CorpFlunkie has said here. Very hopeful to stay for the long haul. 2 yrs, and QOL is great for me. Great bunch of co-workers, and the way the industry is moving, hopeful for even more increased QOL$$ as we grow!
Looking fwd to my 21 days off (vaca) at the end of this tour!
CorpF: you better make it up to go skiing next week!

 

[Geronimo4497]

I was just wondering what anyone knows about Avantair. There doesn't seem to be much information that I can find other than their Corporate home page and airlinepilotcentral. I haven't heard anything bad about them here and that sounds encouraging. Does anybody work there and if so do you like it? What are the duty days and rest periods like? How are you generally treated. I remember sitting inside an Avanti at the Oshkosh EAA event about 15 years ago and thinking that it was a really cool airplane and ahead of it's time. It must be a good bird if they are still buying more new ones. Any information is appreciated.

I'm a newbie at Avantair and so far, all is well. There are some things that I don't like, but that would be true at any company. I took the gamble that things will work out here in the long term, and I believe that this year will be very telling as to the future of this company (financially speaking).

Like some of the others have said, you will work long hard days here right up to the limits of duty or max flight time, for the most part. I've also done my fair share of hotel rotting, but that beats the hell out of FBO rot (have NEVER done that since I started). APC has a somewhat accurate breakdown of the current goings on at the company. I would encourage you to listen to the financial conference calls listed on www.avantair.com to help make your decision. [email protected] is the place to send your cover letter and resume.

 

[Heavy Set]

I'm a newbie at Avantair and so far, all is well. There are some things that I don't like, but that would be true at any company. I took the gamble that things will work out here in the long term, and I believe that this year will be very telling as to the future of this company (financially speaking).

Like some of the others have said, you will work long hard days here right up to the limits of duty or max flight time, for the most part. I've also done my fair share of hotel rotting, but that beats the hell out of FBO rot (have NEVER done that since I started). APC has a somewhat accurate breakdown of the current goings on at the company. I would encourage you to listen to the financial conference calls listed on www.avantair.com to help make your decision. [email protected] is the place to send your cover letter and resume.

What about flying the P180 - has that been a good experience? I can hear them coming from a few miles and they look like they would actually be fun to fly.

Without trying to sound pompous or flip, do you guys ever get "jet envy"? Not suggesting that people need to fly jets - some jets are terrible to fly. But for those of you who came from the regionals with RJs or corporate operators, are you happy with flying the P180? I know that Phenom jets are on order down the line.

I do think the growth with quick upgrade time there is a big plus.

 

[glasspilot]

I came from flying CRJs (4,000 hrs 1,500 PIC) and 727's (600 SIC). I have ZERO jet envy.

The P180 feels like a jet. The leg lengths, altitudes and whatnot. It doesn't feel like a prop.

The only envy I have now is APU envy and Flight Attendant envy. I will not bid the Phenom because it has neither.

 

[Geronimo4497]

What about flying the P180 - has that been a good experience? I can hear them coming from a few miles and they look like they would actually be fun to fly.

Without trying to sound pompous or flip, do you guys ever get "jet envy"? Not suggesting that people need to fly jets - some jets are terrible to fly. But for those of you who came from the regionals with RJs or corporate operators, are you happy with flying the P180? I know that Phenom jets are on order down the line.

I do think the growth with quick upgrade time there is a big plus.

The airplane is a blast to fly! The major portion of my background is from flying PC-12s (a little bit of King Air and Lear 35 stuff mixed in also); this airplane is a moon shot compared to the Pilatus. No jet envy here. Interestingly enough, on a similar leg distance (TEB-PBI) that I have done in the PC-12, the Piaggio did it in much less time (1.5 less) on about 100lbs LESS fuel. Cool machine.

As glass said, an APU would be nice (not so sure about the FAs, unless they are all under 30 and are RNs :nuts: ).