Attention FLOPs Pilots!!

[guido411]

Have you been logging on the the faithful www.flightinfo.com website lately? Have you been noticing that there has been nothing posted on this website for Flight Options pilots as of late? Do you know why? It's because all the information you need is on the www.ibt1108.org website and forums!! Come join the party, all 800 pilots are needed, we can't leave anybody out. Take part in YOUR union and sign up today!

The IBT 1108 website contains weekly updates on things that directly affect you as a Flight Options pilot. It is also home to the Flight Options pilots' message board. Ok, to start with, YES. . .you WILL have to use your REAL name to sign up on this board but you do NOT have to post under it. Please don't use the excuse of, "I'm too busy to spend time on a message board." You came here didn't you? I don't want to hear, "I signed up a long time ago and now I can't log on." That's great, and thank you, but you need to RE-REGISTER now that we have become unionized. I also don't want to hear, "I haven't been approved by the moderators." If you're having trouble logging on and have re-registered please try again, you have to follow the instructions precisely with all contact information current and correct, then when the confirmation e-mail comes (this is important) you MUST click on the link in that e-mail or you will not be confirmed.

Thank you for your time and please follow this link:

http://www.ibt1108.org/options/index.html

Then click on "Message Boards" on the left side of the screen and follow the promts.

 

[guido411]

I know there are some that will still not sign up on the union's message board. But I believe everybody needs to read this, consider it, and hopefully practice it.

Originally Posted by Joe Arton
Confessions of a Union Negotiator


In June I will return to the line having failed as a negotiator to deliver a contract in which the Company and the Union can move forward. After some reflection, I have concluded that I have no one to blame but myself for the current stalemate and day to day misery that the Company and Union are trapped in.

I must confess that prior to being named as a negotiator my “can do” attitude as a line pilot sent the wrong message to company management. Like many of my union brothers and sisters, I liked the job and wanted to see the company succeed. So, I went the extra mile. I may have flown tired. I may have flown sick. I may have flown a marginal airplane. But, I did it because I thought it was the right thing to do at the time. I WAS WRONG and I apologize. I sent a message to management that they had license to exploit my “can do” attitude along with the fruits of my labor and waste it. So, they did. I did the company a great disservice and for that I apologize. Moreover, as a negotiator, the more that I offered solutions to company problems, the more license management took. Again, I inadvertently gave management a warped sense of the union demands that I was tasked to articulate.

I will return to the line in June and hereby promise to the Company and my Union that I will atone for my misguided behavior through the following pledge:

My Pledge

1) I will not fly tired and will refuse to fly with a tired crewmate, even if that crewmate claims he/she can tough it out for one more leg.

2) I will not fly sick and will refuse to fly with a sick crewmate, even if that crewmate claims that they are good to go. I will not conserve my sick days. They are meant to be used for illness. If I use all my sick days, I will still take myself off the schedule because it is the right thing to do.

3) I will not fly a marginal airplane even if my crewmate thinks it might be alright. I will always err on the side of caution and safety.

4) I will always complete a “Stop and proceed with caution” brief before taxiing out of the ramp area. If there are any items that cannot be complied with, I will delay the flight and use the time to do my best to rectify the situation.

5) I will not extend [do overtime/extra days] because it will send the wrong message to management and serve only to extend the misery for management and the union.

6) I will not be, or aspire to be an instructor, IOE, CA because to do so would send the wrong message to management and thereby be harmful to the long term success of the company.

7) I will not be, or aspire to be a CP or ACP because it sends the wrong message to management and management will need every able bodied pilot to fill in for pilots like me who are trying to do the right and responsible thing.

8) I will not encourage prospective new hires to accept employment at NJA until those currently on the seniority list have properly atoned for inadvertently misleading management. New hires should be assured of coming to a safe and professional environment.

9) I will be especially courteous to, and understanding of, our highly qualified dispatchers, schedulers, flight managers and owner representatives. I will be compliant even if I think there may be a better way, because they probably have a better view of the entire operation.

10) I will consult with maintenance personnel frequently on matters of concern and always investigate “could not duplicate” entries.

11) I will encourage employees at NJI, EJM, FSI, contractors and competitors to renew their commitment to safety and doing the right thing for the good of the entire aviation community.

12) I will be especially mindful of this Pledge when passengers are scheduled to be onboard.


I will carry a copy of this Pledge with me and read it before each tour until such time as there is a clear sign from company management that they understand my true intentions and are not misguided by a “can do” attitude. Otherwise, collectively we are doomed to languish in a cesspool of bickering, second rate service, failing reputation and self destructive behavior.

I make this pledge because it is in the best interest of the Company, as well as the Union, to end the misery. The way to end it is for each and every pilot to take the pledge at the beginning of each day on each tour.

 

[beenaround]

*ibt1108

Thank you for bringing that to the forefront. Or shall I say " Front and Center People!!!"??

 

[ArtVandalay]

lets Go Flexjet. Get On The Wagon For The Ibt1108!!!

 

[Cavpilot]

THE PLEDGE...

1. Learn it.
2. Love it.
3. Live it.

 

[fracsdispatcher]

guido411 Your Pledge forgot a few pledges...

As a dispatcher of a fractional aircraft company I pledge that:

1. I will laugh my butt off after hanging up the phone with a whiny crewmember complaining that the trip will be delayed because their hotel was noisy.

2. I will talk pure crap about any crewmember that delays a trip for frivilous reasons.

3. I will make every attempt to make you use your per dium for by suggesting that crews order their own food.

4. I will make continuous additions to my list of complaining pilots.

5. I will not send charts when you only have five minutes till the passengers arrive.

6. I will suggest that crews start their duty day at the fbo irreguardless of trips assigned starting at 0800lcl. Unless of course we can repo at 0600lcl.

7. I will suggest that crews be not released to the hotel until 14 hours of duty day has been expired.

8. Lastly, and most importantly, I will suggest which pilots should be layed off indefinately.

I will do this to remind pilots that we all got a job to do, so get back to work....

 

[fracsdispatcher]

After reviewing my other post "Lead follow or get the hell out of the way" i have decided to tell you frankly about unions.

Let me tell you this people. I have been in fractionals for almost 7 years now. Prior to that, we discussed it in college. Let me tell you, management HATES unions.

Say you start your own company and you hire some people that you trust with Millions of dollars worth of you own personal assets. Then some jackass lookin for a buck tells you that you no longer understand your company and the needs of the employees that you hired and says that you should pay him to talk to your own employees that you hired.

How would you feel?

Me personally, I think that paying a union rep to speak for you shows that you are either too scared or cannot find the words to speak for yourself.

Unions destroy the bottom line of a company and makes me realize that gangsters, I mean unions will do anything to make a buck. Even if it means capitalizing on a few weak minded men and women to pay them for their services to talk. Heck, if thats the case, pay us dispatchers, we'll be your backbone to do your deeds.

Dirty deeds, done dirt cheap. "AC/DC" still lives...

 

[ProFracPilot]

Thanks for that insight, fracmanagement, er, I mean, fracdispatcher. Must be a slow morning in the Puzzle Palace.

 

[Guitar rocker]

After reviewing my other post "Lead follow or get the hell out of the way" i have decided to tell you frankly about unions.

Let me tell you this people. I have been in fractionals for almost 7 years now. Prior to that, we discussed it in college. Let me tell you, management HATES unions.

Say you start your own company and you hire some people that you trust with Millions of dollars worth of you own personal assets. Then some jackass lookin for a buck tells you that you no longer understand your company and the needs of the employees that you hired and says that you should pay him to talk to your own employees that you hired.

How would you feel?

Me personally, I think that paying a union rep to speak for you shows that you are either too scared or cannot find the words to speak for yourself.

Unions destroy the bottom line of a company and makes me realize that gangsters, I mean unions will do anything to make a buck. Even if it means capitalizing on a few weak minded men and women to pay them for their services to talk. Heck, if thats the case, pay us dispatchers, we'll be your backbone to do your deeds.

Dirty deeds, done dirt cheap. "AC/DC" still lives...

Flops dispatcher, perhaps you should be concerned with filing some flight plans and let the pilots worry about the flying stuff. Have you ever thought that had flops mgmt stepped up to the plate like NJA, flex and CS that maybe a drive towards a union wouldnt have occurred??? Flops mgmt is doing the pilots wrong by not following suit and paying them what they are worth. Remember, Flops mgmt had ads in the NY Times, boasting that they had the highest paid pilots......the idea was that, if you were an owner, wouldnt you want your pilots paid what they are truly worth??? I agree...but look what your mgmt is doing now. SO much for that ad, uh????

How would you feel if your friends doing the exact same work you were doing were getting paid plenty more than you currently are? Wouldnt you ask why your mgmt wasnt going to do you right??? What does that say for Flops mgmt and how they view their employess???? It's a huge slap in the face if you ask me.

Last but not least.....I hope that flops mgmt does the right thing and sticks to their original motto of having the highest paid pilots out there and does them right otherwise flops mgmt is taking the pilots on a ride down the "Highway to Hell." Your right, ACDC still lives as you say.

 

[ThinAir]

As a dispatcher of a fractional aircraft company I pledge that:

1. I will laugh my butt off after hanging up the phone with a whiny crewmember complaining that the trip will be delayed because their hotel was noisy.

2. I will talk pure crap about any crewmember that delays a trip for frivilous reasons.

3. I will make every attempt to make you use your per dium for by suggesting that crews order their own food.

4. I will make continuous additions to my list of complaining pilots.

5. I will not send charts when you only have five minutes till the passengers arrive.

6. I will suggest that crews start their duty day at the fbo irreguardless of trips assigned starting at 0800lcl. Unless of course we can repo at 0600lcl.

7. I will suggest that crews be not released to the hotel until 14 hours of duty day has been expired.

8. Lastly, and most importantly, I will suggest which pilots should be layed off indefinately.

I will do this to remind pilots that we all got a job to do, so get back to work....

RESPONSE TO:

#1. I don't think any pilot would loose any sleep over this one.

#2. I dont think any pilot would loose any sleep over this one.

#3. Thank you for your help on this one. I'm sure that every pilot would rather take a two-hour hot meal break over crewfood. I'm sure that the crew will let the supervisors know why you delayed the flight by two-hours.

#4. I don't think any pilot would loose any sleep over this one.

#5. Make sure that you explain to the supervisors why this flight was delayed. I'm sure that the pilots will take care of this one for you.

#6. Thank you for getting us a later show.

#7. That's great. This will result in nothing more than a "fatigue" call. Then you get to jump through your ass in finding another crew. Ultimately, costing the company more money. Looks like you wont be getting a pay raise. The pilots (NJA, CS) already received their raise...did you?

#8. Like you're in a position to suggest anything. If I were you, I'd be looking over my shoulder. Come Monday morning, I'm sure that their will be hundreds of unskilled laborers that have just finished reading the Sunday Paper Want Ads waiting to take your job. assumming they can pass the one-week training course.


Do you have some misguided anger? If so, it appears that your anger is directed at the wrong group of people. But, then again, everyone likes to blame the pilots. It's much easier. If you, along with management, would just accept the responsibility for your own screwups then daily operations would run much smoother.

My guess it that you're just having fun with this post. At least, I'm sure that's how any pilot would read it. Nothing wrong with a little fun.

 

[fracsdispatcher]

Flops dispatcher, perhaps you should be concerned with filing some flight plans and let the pilots worry about the flying stuff. Have you ever thought that had flops mgmt stepped up to the plate like NJA, flex and CS that maybe a drive towards a union wouldnt have occurred??? Flops mgmt is doing the pilots wrong by not following suit and paying them what they are worth. Remember, Flops mgmt had ads in the NY Times, boasting that they had the highest paid pilots......the idea was that, if you were an owner, wouldnt you want your pilots paid what they are truly worth??? I agree...but look what your mgmt is doing now. SO much for that ad, uh????

How would you feel if your friends doing the exact same work you were doing were getting paid plenty more than you currently are? Wouldnt you ask why your mgmt wasnt going to do you right??? What does that say for Flops mgmt and how they view their employess???? It's a huge slap in the face if you ask me.

Last but not least.....I hope that flops mgmt does the right thing and sticks to their original motto of having the highest paid pilots out there and does them right otherwise flops mgmt is taking the pilots on a ride down the "Highway to Hell." Your right, ACDC still lives as you say.

How would I feel? Ha, if I am doing the same job as my so called "friends" and they are paid MORE. Then either they need to take a pay cut or get fired. Why, cause I can hire someone else to do the same job for less. After they are gone, I will say, great job management for getting rid of the waste. Don't need to go to outside the country to outsource, we got workaholics right here in America...

Mumbling to myself, friends, yea right....Put your head down and do your job....

 

[fracsdispatcher]

RESPONSE TO:

#1. I don't think any pilot would loose any sleep over this one.

#2. I dont think any pilot would loose any sleep over this one.

#3. Thank you for your help on this one. I'm sure that every pilot would rather take a two-hour hot meal break over crewfood. I'm sure that the crew will let the supervisors know why you delayed the flight by two-hours.

#4. I don't think any pilot would loose any sleep over this one.

#5. Make sure that you explain to the supervisors why this flight was delayed. I'm sure that the pilots will take care of this one for you.

#6. Thank you for getting us a later show.

#7. That's great. This will result in nothing more than a "fatigue" call. Then you get to jump through your ass in finding another crew. Ultimately, costing the company more money. Looks like you wont be getting a pay raise. The pilots (NJA, CS) already received their raise...did you?

#8. Like you're in a position to suggest anything. If I were you, I'd be looking over my shoulder. Come Monday morning, I'm sure that their will be hundreds of unskilled laborers that have just finished reading the Sunday Paper Want Ads waiting to take your job. assumming they can pass the one-week training course.


Do you have some misguided anger? If so, it appears that your anger is directed at the wrong group of people. But, then again, everyone likes to blame the pilots. It's much easier. If you, along with management, would just accept the responsibility for your own screwups then daily operations would run much smoother.

My guess it that you're just having fun with this post. At least, I'm sure that's how any pilot would read it. Nothing wrong with a little fun.

Thinair, trust me, management is not exempt from my wrath at work either. I keep em hoppin like a bag of popcorn. I got plenty of salt for them. I consider continous improvement as nondiscriminatory. Misguided anger, maybe on the chat rooms, but not at work. If I screw up, it's only once of that issue, then I move on and don't point fingers.

No one is perfect and I know it, if only our owners knew it and quit trying to get a free ride. But, we gotta understand that they are business people and will always try to get something cheap. It's their nature.

 

[Ultra Grump]

How would you feel if your friends doing the exact same work you were doing were getting paid plenty more than you currently are?

You're making quite an assumption here. Namely, that he/she/it has any friends. Judging from its response to you, my guess is "no."

 

[Ultra Grump]

But, we gotta understand that they are business people and will always try to get something cheap. It's their nature.

Just like management, who obviously succeeded in hiring you...

 

[Guitar rocker]

You're making quite an assumption here. Namely, that he/she/it has any friends. Judging from its response to you, my guess is "no."

Yah, poor assumption on my part.

 

[Guitar rocker]

How would I feel? Ha, if I am doing the same job as my so called "friends" and they are paid MORE. Then either they need to take a pay cut or get fired. Why, cause I can hire someone else to do the same job for less. After they are gone, I will say, great job management for getting rid of the waste. Don't need to go to outside the country to outsource, we got workaholics right here in America...

Mumbling to myself, friends, yea right....Put your head down and do your job....

I know someone who will work as a fully qualified dispatcher for a lot less than you get. Lets get you fired, get rid of the waste and have this other pal whose a workaholic take over your position.

 

[Guitar rocker]

How would I feel? Ha, if I am doing the same job as my so called "friends" and they are paid MORE. Then either they need to take a pay cut or get fired. Why, cause I can hire someone else to do the same job for less. After they are gone, I will say, great job management for getting rid of the waste. Don't need to go to outside the country to outsource, we got workaholics right here in America...

Mumbling to myself, friends, yea right....Put your head down and do your job....

Why dont you save Flight options money and work for free? You could do a janitorial job working late night at Walmart and earn your living that way.

 

[Dep676]

Well I can tell you one thing the dispatchers at Options are just glorified secretaries. All they do is answer the phones. They do not file any flight plans. With that in mind, most of them were biggie sizing your order last week.

Hey rocker, they might just have been the janitor at Wal-mart last week. That is the type of people they hire to be dispatchers at Options. The company drives all the good ones away.

Dispatcher, as far as you keeping management hoppin like popcorn. That is a crock of crap. If you really are a dispatcher and do work at Options. You know you would be fired in a heart beat if you were causing any trouble and not drinking the kool-aid, which I believe is in the water in CGF.

 

[wolfpackpilot]

I will suggest that crews start their duty day at the fbo irreguardless of trips assigned starting at 0800lcl. Unless of course we can repo at 0600lcl.

Glad your with Flex and not NJI... cause you'd be the one getting fired! Our dispatchers are absolutely the best in the business and a pleasure to work with.

 

[gunfyter]

Glad your with Flex and not NJI... cause you'd be the one getting fired! Our dispatchers are absolutely the best in the business and a pleasure to work with.

Yes I agree....

But I would caution pilots not to respond to someone claiming to be a dispatcher by attacking your coworkers on the basis the comments of one idiot.

I appreciate the work of dispatchers and other workers who support our operations.

 

[p3hawk]

Loser

Hey dispatcher, if you went to college, like you said you did. You obviously failed, hence the reason Flops hired you. Oh, could you mow my yard please ?

 

[Rubber Ducky]

Flight Options dispatchers rule!!!

The dispatchers at Flight Options have got our backs. It's the schedulers that are misguided. The poser obviously isn't one of our dispatchers.

 

[cjdriver]

P3Hawk

I sure wish I would have gone to college, maybe I would have become an engineer for McDonnell Douglas before I did (age 21). Or maybe I would have worked as an engineer for a tech startup that went public and made me a millionaire at 35 a little earlier than that. But who knows, if I'd have gone to college, maybe I'd just be flying someone else's airplane, where they want to go, when they want go, for $50k/year like some people I know (and which I did for awhile). Instead, I'm flying myself around in my own airplane for business, bringing home substantially more than $100k/yr, flying jet's for fun. What do you think, should I go back to college?
Not to come off too heavy here, but I'm offended by your remark, and could rattle off a number of very succesful people that never went to college, or even finished high school. One I can think of is the billionaire in Tulsa that owns the hangar on the northwest side of the airport filled with G4's and 5's, and toys of all size. He has a 6th grade education. Check the attitude.

 

[p3hawk]

no offense intended

Got that one from my own family, also. "look at your brother no college and he's mak'in $$$" The original poster brought up the "when I was in college thing" . Anyway, yes I know millions out there very successful. no degree.

I thought It was a nice ticket to have at the time.
Cheer's P3

 

[jetwash]

Dispatcher,

Don't forget your job and the whole OCC could be out sourced to India in a blink of an eye. They have college graduates there as well.

There could be 3 people doing your job for half as much as you are earning. They have computer there as well as telephones and lots of smart people.
( Have you ever called your computer tech support)

All of those savings can then go to pay the professional pilots who provide a safe and reliable service to our passengers. When management starts cutting do you think they will be loyal to you since you supported them? Just ask the SFO's how loyal management was when they cut their pay.
Atleast the pilots will be able to have a voice through the union.

 

[B19 Flyer]

voice through the union

When management starts cutting do you think they will be loyal to you since you supported them? Just ask the SFO's how loyal management was when they cut their pay.

Atleast the pilots will be able to have a voice through the union.[/quote]


And here is the beauty of the union voice:

There are 1000 pilots making say... $100,000 each per year. Times get tight (for any reason) and the decision is made to renegotiate the contract. The company and the union mutually decide that a 25% cut is reasonable. Now, here is how the 25% is administrated:

Basic union philosophy is to keep 750 pilots at $100,000 a year, rather than keep 1000 pilots at $75,000 a year.

They protect only those with the higher salaries. Those that are on the bottom of the seniority list get furloughed. Now, to quote you above, will your union be loyal to you since you paid loyally paid your dues?

If you honestly believe that a union is going to protect you, think twice and educate yourself on the word "loyalty." I've been around a long time and have never personally witnessed a union protect their own members by taking a pay cut to protect all it's pilot members from getting furloughed. I have however, repeatedly watched loyal dues paying union pilots get furloughed while their comrades continue to work without a pay cut. The union version of "sacrifice" is to sacrifice the jobs of the bottom of the seniority list so the upper side of the seniority list can keep their paycheck.

I understand that this post will anger a lot of loyal union members. All I ask is one example where a union has unilaterally taken a pay cut to save the jobs of ALL it's members to prove me wrong.

I have yet to see a single union action since deregulation that has truly supported their members and strengthened the company. Each group has taken the cash and has pushed some airlines to the edge and into bankruptcy. The mechanic's union pushed Eastern out of business. The union members will complain that a dozen or so top management officials have golden parachutes but will never mention the international 747 or 777 captain making 260K a year sitting at home on reserve that is flying no revenue and needs to schedule sim time to stay current. (Kinda blows the whole risk and responsibility thing about flying passengers to earn the money, eh?)

For those that want a union, be careful what you wish for....

 

[Diesel]

well it looks like FLOPS found their own version of FamilyGuy in Fracdispatcher.

Nothing more than flamebait. Probably just a 15 year old kid having fun.

 

[brokeflyer]

The best way to respond to a cry baby dispacher is a little known tool in the cockpit......

it's called the "parking break"


works everytime

 

[Majik]

The best way to respond to a cry baby dispacher is a little known tool in the cockpit......

it's called the "parking break"

works everytime

Read your post again. To me it sounds cocky, arrogant and unprofessional. If that's what you were going for then you don't represent me or the majority of NJA pilots.
I strongly disagree with Fracdispatcher's post but that doesn't mean you have to roll in the mud too.

 

[ThinAir]

And here is the beauty of the union voice:

There are 1000 pilots making say... $100,000 each per year. Times get tight (for any reason) and the decision is made to renegotiate the contract. The company and the union mutually decide that a 25% cut is reasonable. Now, here is how the 25% is administrated:

Basic union philosophy is to keep 750 pilots at $100,000 a year, rather than keep 1000 pilots at $75,000 a year.

They protect only those with the higher salaries. Those that are on the bottom of the seniority list get furloughed. Now, to quote you above, will your union be loyal to you since you paid loyally paid your dues?

If you honestly believe that a union is going to protect you, think twice and educate yourself on the word "loyalty." I've been around a long time and have never personally witnessed a union protect their own members by taking a pay cut to protect all it's pilot members from getting furloughed. I have however, repeatedly watched loyal dues paying union pilots get furloughed while their comrades continue to work without a pay cut. The union version of "sacrifice" is to sacrifice the jobs of the bottom of the seniority list so the upper side of the seniority list can keep their paycheck.

I understand that this post will anger a lot of loyal union members. All I ask is one example where a union has unilaterally taken a pay cut to save the jobs of ALL it's members to prove me wrong.

I have yet to see a single union action since deregulation that has truly supported their members and strengthened the company. Each group has taken the cash and has pushed some airlines to the edge and into bankruptcy. The mechanic's union pushed Eastern out of business. The union members will complain that a dozen or so top management officials have golden parachutes but will never mention the international 747 or 777 captain making 260K a year sitting at home on reserve that is flying no revenue and needs to schedule sim time to stay current. (Kinda blows the whole risk and responsibility thing about flying passengers to earn the money, eh?)

For those that want a union, be careful what you wish for....[/QUOTE]






Although, your post may carry some merit, I suggest you read the thread entitled "FlexJet... Livin' the dream".

I will be the first to admit that no union is perfect. But, one thing that I know for certain...the union has incorporated a quailty of life that I could not have received any other way.

In your post you have suggested that any union is willing to sacrifice the bottom man in order to preserve the top man. How do you think this situation would play out without a union?

Without a union this is how I see the play: You work your ass off faithfully for your company. Regardess, thoughout the years, the company keeps stripping you of quality of life. After you have served your company faithfully for five to ten years, the company decides they need to make further cuts. In a feable attempt for management to save their own uwarranted bonuses they elect to sacrifice you instead.

How? Simple. They replace your $120,000/year job with a second-year pilot making $50,000/year. Now you've just given your company ten good years and you're still out in the street.

If I'm gonna loose my job I'd much rather loose it to any union deficiencies in the first couple of years rather than to managment's greed ten year's later.