Attention: Conservative Obsessive Captains

[Dude]

I was going to google it, but since y'all are here.............could you tell me how often chicks change their tampons?


Guy gets to row his boat the way he wants to! If you are offended, disinterested, or pissed about a fella's comments.........speak up or take it. Those are your two choices. Changing their mind is unlikely. I had to sit through a 5 hour flight with a guy telling me that intelligent people cannot support the idea of Christ or religion. It is a fool's hobby and for those unwilling to educate themselves. I just politely disagreed and listened to his POV. It isn't like I can jump out. I did go to the lav a lot, though.

 

[PCL_128]

The less regulation the better off we'll be.

We've been dealing with practically non-existent regulation from the Bush administration in every department for nearly eight years. I don't think most people are happy with the results. I know I'm not.

This kind of attitude scares me. You're one of those types who's been cultured to believe that corporate America is bad. All they want to do is take advantage of and screw the little guy. The joker is "Management's true face." If we don't do something to stop these evil corporations they will take advantage of us. You need to unplug your TV right now and stop watching movies.

I didn't get it from TV, I got it from years spent as a union rep. I got it from the time I spent sitting across the board room table from them, watching as they spewed lies and tried to steal from us. No, my opinions on corporate America aren't the result of TV, they're the result of real world experience.

You've obviously been raised to trust govt. When things get rough you are going to look to them to save you.

I was a hard-core conservative that worshiped at the alter of Limbaugh and Reagan until I spent a few years in union work. Once I started spending time in Washington when I was doing work for ALPA National, I saw how the political process really works, and I saw how the process was weighted against us "little people." The right only cares about the corporations and the rich. They'll throw you and I away like scraps in order to benefit their rich buddies.

Hit them where it hurts...in the pocket book.

A billion dollar fine would hurt their pocket book pretty good, and it would be a lot more effective than your laughable "consumer reviews."

Its like Thomas Jefferson said: "I would rather have total liberty and accept the fact that some people will abuse it than to give up that liberty."

BTW, Thomas Jefferson knew alot more about it than you or I.

You and Thomas Jefferson are not on the same page, my friend. Thomas Jefferson considered large corporations to be inherently evil and corrupt. Thomas Jefferson was a champion of the little man, not the rich.

You want another research project? Look at the Feds invovement in the creating of and inflation of dollars and how it affected the stock market in 1928-1929. You'll soon learn that govt involvement in the stock market isn't neccessarily good for you and I.

I think you're the one that needs to do a little more studying on the causes of the Great Depression. You should also learn why the Fed was created. Our economy was a mess before its creation.

What gives you the right or what gives your buddies in Washington DC the right to force me to pay for it?

The Constitution.

 

[Bad-Andy]

Thomas Jefferson was a champion of the little man, not the rich.

Ummmmmmmmm..... Source, please? Can you back that statement up?

I would recommend reading The Life of Thomas Jefferson by BL Rayner (first published in 1834) to truly understand Jefferson's positions. He was one of the most complex individuals (thought process) to sit in the White House. (Here is link to a reprint if you don't want to pay $475 for an original: http://www.amazon.com/Life-Thomas-J...=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1217540892&sr=8-2)

On one hand, he openly supported the Federal Government having the power to tax individuals (as opposed to the state levying its own taxes). And yet, on the other hand, he constantly warned of the dangers of over taxing (or not taxing fairly). He also warned of not wasting tax revenue (overspending by the government). He also argued that the majority of revenues should be based on imports rather than home taxes. He argued for property taxes and federal sales taxes, but argued against uniform income taxes (he argued for a fluctuating tax based on the needs of the government -- wartime, etc).

All that said, he most certainly did not hate (or fear) big corporations. He warned time and again of the dangers of big banks (controlling the US monetary supply). And, he was severely opposed to credit. He spoke repeatedly about abolishing credit. In fact, he often called people that got in over their heads (by living beyond their means) "fools." And, he never advocated bailing them out. He advocated abolishing credit outright.

Anyways, back on point, to the original poster, while we all tire of endless pontificating from the left seat (regardless of political persuasion), either deal with it directly (by politely asking them to change the subject) or suffer through the trip -- it's your choice. Or, as fly-n-hi said, tell them USAPA sucks. (That usually starts the old goats on a rant about how us "kids" don't know anything about aviation. Its fun to see how easy it is to spin them up -- immature, but fun...)

 

[PCL_128]

Ummmmmmmmm..... Source, please? Can you back that statement up?

"I hope we shall crush in its birth the aristocracy of our monied corporations" - Thomas Jefferson

"[The corporation] penetrating it's every part of the Union acting by command and in phalanx, may, in a critical moment, upset the government. I deem no government safe which is under the vassalage of any self-constituted authorities." - Thomas Jefferson


Don't get me wrong, Jefferson despised regulation and government involvement, but he also had absolutely zero trust of corporations, with a special disdain for bankers and lenders. He believed they all would be able to control the government over time, and he was right. He believed that the most moral pursuit was that of agriculture. His idea of near perfection was a citizen farmer.

 

[JT12345]

.



I was a hard-core conservative that worshiped at the alter of Limbaugh and Reagan until I spent a few years in union work. Once I started spending time in Washington when I was doing work for ALPA National, I saw how the political process really works, and I saw how the process was weighted against us "little people." The right only cares about the corporations and the rich. They'll throw you and I away like scraps in order to benefit their rich buddies.

My work is done with you.

Now if only the S.P. would open his eyes... ah but he is blinded by the darkside of the force. He refuses to let go of his hate and his fear. I think he will forever be on the path of the darkside. Anger, fear, hate... he refuses to let go of these emotions.

 

[Fly-n-hi]

We've been dealing with practically non-existent regulation from the Bush administration in every department for nearly eight years. I don't think most people are happy with the results. I know I'm not..

You mean like the TSA or the Department of Homeland security? Yeah, you're right. Nothings been created under GW's watch.

I do wish your erroneous and false statement was true, though.

I didn't get it from TV, I got it from years spent as a union rep. I got it from the time I spent sitting across the board room table from them, watching as they spewed lies and tried to steal from us. No, my opinions on corporate America aren't the result of TV, they're the result of real world experience..

No they're not. Your views are the result of infantile syndrome in which you think the govt is your mommy and she's supposed to hold your hand and wipe your nose. Somewhere along the way you were taught this and believed it.

I was a hard-core conservative that worshiped at the alter of Limbaugh and Reagan until I spent a few years in union work. Once I started spending time in Washington when I was doing work for ALPA National, I saw how the political process really works, and I saw how the process was weighted against us "little people." The right only cares about the corporations and the rich. They'll throw you and I away like scraps in order to benefit their rich buddies..

You spent some time at ALPA National and now you're some kind of expert on political process? Get real.

But, let's say that your story is correct. You've just proven my point, thank you very much. You see, you of all people should have learned from your vast "experience" in DC that govt can't be trusted. You basically just said so. Obviously, the govt has some self serving intrest...in this case big corporations. Who knows, next year it might be enviornmentalists, and next year it might be religious extremists. The point (that you just helped me prove) is that DC can be bought by anyone. I guess that's ok as long as the people calling the shots are people you like. But next year they may not be people you like.

So instead of hoping that you get people you like, instead of hoping that the politicians will create laws favorable to you, why don't we tie the hands of govt and take care of ourselves?

A billion dollar fine would hurt their pocket book pretty good, and it would be a lot more effective than your laughable "consumer reviews.".

You're problem is that you seem to think that the govt is the all knowing guardian that will do whatever it takes to protect "the little guy." If the govt deems it nesseccary than it must be good and righteous. You have alot more faith in politicians than I do which is either very sad or very scary.

You and Thomas Jefferson are not on the same page, my friend. Thomas Jefferson considered large corporations to be inherently evil and corrupt. Thomas Jefferson was a champion of the little man, not the rich..

Really? My History Degree says otherwise. Clearly, you and Thomas Jefferson are not on the same page.

Here, try this quote:

"...a wise and frugal government, which shall restrain men from injuring one another, which shall leave them otherwise free to regulate their own persuits of industry and improvement, and shall not take from the mouth of labor the bread it has earned. This is the sum of good government." -Thomas Jefferson 1801

Or how about this:

"Sometimes it is said that man cannot be trusted with the govt of himself. Can he, then, be trusted with the government of others?" -Thomas Jefferson 1801

I've got plenty more. I'll be happy to share them with you.

I think you're the one that needs to do a little more studying on the causes of the Great Depression. You should also learn why the Fed was created. Our economy was a mess before its creation..

In a nutshell: In the late 1920's the ecomoy wasn't doing poorly. The Fed was pumping dollars into the economy, called the "injection effect," and inflating the dollar. Most of these dollars were being invested into the stock market. This "false money" tricked people and corporations to invest their "real money" into the market as well. This was called malinvestment. To stop the runaway inflation the Fed stopped creating dollars which triggered a depression. People got scared and tried to pull their money out of the market at the same time. The market collapsed causing the great depression. Thank you, Washington, for inflating the dollar and causing the depression.

"...that paper money has some advantages, is admitted. But that its abuses are also inevitable, and, by breaking up the measure of value, makes a lottery of all private property, cannot be denied. Shall we ever be able to put a constitutional veto on it?" -Thomas Jefferson 1817

The Constitution.

The original Constitution, and the Bill of Rights, were fine the way they were. The 16th amendment, which was ratified in 1913, is a perfect example of how the govt meddled with the law and screwed things up. Looks like you just helped me prove my point again.

If someone ratified the constitution tommorow to say that it was ok for me to come and take all of your possessions would you be mad if I said "well, its in the constitution. Tough luck."

Don't hide behind a document. Just because its written on paper doesn't make it right.



I would still like to know how much of your own money you've donated to all the helpless people who were taken advatage of by the big evil mortgage companies. Normally I wouldn't ask but since you insist that I help pay for it I figure I have a right to know how much you've given.

 

[JT12345]

The mortgage "tax breaks" or what we are calling a bailout are more like interest free loans. The money has to be paid back. The money is added onto the mortgage. If the house is sold the money is taken out of the value of the house and must be paid back. The IRS can go after the money also.

 

[Fly-n-hi]

PCL_128

This one's for you as well:

"Any society that would give up a little liberty to gain a little security will deserve neither and lose both." -Benjamin Franklin

and:

"Anyone who trades liberty for security deserves neither liberty nor security." -BF



How about this:

"Beer is living proof that God loves us and wants us to be happy." -BF

This one has nothing to do with the argument. I just thought it was good.

 

[Bad-Andy]

"I hope we shall crush in its birth the aristocracy of our monied corporations" - Thomas Jefferson

"[The corporation] penetrating it's every part of the Union acting by command and in phalanx, may, in a critical moment, upset the government. I deem no government safe which is under the vassalage of any self-constituted authorities." - Thomas Jefferson

Both comments dealt specifically with banking and the money industry. That was, and is, a very real threat to any government, when a private corporation controls the value of the monetary system. Neither had anything to do with normal, run-of-the-mill corporations. Do not blur the two, as they are very different issues...

Again, read the book I referenced above. It is not the most entertaining read ever, but it goes into quite a bit of depth about Jefferson's convoluted views.

As for more quotes showing he was not anti-business, check these out:

"Agriculture, manufactures, commerce and navigation, the four pillars of our prosperity, are the most thriving when left most free to individual enterprise. Protection from casual embarrassments, however, may sometimes be seasonably interposed." --Thomas Jefferson: 1st Annual Message, 1801. ME 3:337


"Encouragement of agriculture and of commerce as its handmaid I deem [one of the] essential principles of our government, and consequently [one of] those which ought to shape its administration." --Thomas Jefferson: 1st Inaugural, 1801. ME 3:322


"[It is a] great truth that industry, commerce and security are the surest roads to the happiness and prosperity of [a] people." --Thomas Jefferson to Francisco Chiappe, 1789. Papers 15:405


"[The] policy [of my country] is, to leave their citizens free, neither restraining nor aiding them in their pursuits. Though the interposition of government, in matters of invention, has its use, yet it is in practice so inseparable from abuse, that they think it better not to meddle with it." --Thomas Jefferson to M. L'Hommande, 1787. ME 6:255


"Having always observed that public works are much less advantageously managed than the same are by private hands, I have thought it better for the public to go to market for whatever it wants which is to be found there; for there competition brings it down to the minimum of value. I have no doubt we can buy brass cannon at market cheaper than we could make iron ones." --Thomas Jefferson to William B. Bibb, 1808. ME 12:107


"[Ours is a] policy of not embarking the public in enterprises better managed by individuals, and which might occupy as much of our time as those political duties for which the public functionaries are particularly instituted. Some money could be lent [for private projects], but only on an assurance that it would be employed so as to secure the public objects." --Thomas Jefferson to W. C. C. Claiborne, 1808. (*) ME 12:97


"I have not formerly been an advocate for great manufactories. I doubted whether our labor employed in agriculture and aided by the spontaneous energies of the earth would not procure us more than we could make ourselves of other necessaries. But other considerations entering into the question have settled my doubts." --Thomas Jefferson to John Melish, 1813. ME 13:207


"The power given to Congress by the Constitution does not extend to the internal regulation of the commerce of a State (that is to say, of the commerce between citizen and citizen) which remain exclusively with its own legislature, but to its external commerce only; that is to say, its commerce with another State, or with foreign nations, or with the Indian tribes." --Thomas Jefferson: Opinion on Bank, 1791. ME 3:147

Or one of my personal favorites (for you fly-n-hi):
“There's naught, no doubt, so much the spirit calms as rum and true religion” -- Lord Byron

 

[jonjuan]

You and Thomas Jefferson are not on the same page, my friend. Thomas Jefferson considered large corporations to be inherently evil and corrupt. Thomas Jefferson was a champion of the little man, not the rich.

And as such, Thomas Jefferson would most likely frown on the corporate-like shennanigans of the ALPA government.