Atp=?

[Jetter2]

Hi all!
I am a 17 year old guy, going into my Senior Year of HS. I have known since the day I was born that I wanted to be a Pilot as a carrer. Nothing makes me happier than flying and being in and around aviation.

From what I understand this is my impression,

1)Get your raitings, and hopefully get a decent MEI job, to chalk up some ME time. But, still flying.
2)Get a job with some regional carrier, making less than nothing, but still flying.
3)Hopefully(if god and karma decide to look well upon you) you MIGHT get bumped up to a major carrier. And if you have the best of luck, you might end up flying for some terriffic company like Jet Blue, or Southwest.

From what I have gathered, it is a long, hard, and poverty-strickened road. I am a Teenage guy, with an expensive girlfriend and only making $900/mo. I know what its like to constantly stare in your're wallet, and only have this big empty space stare you back.

I have a friend that flys a C550 for an insurance company out of SAV. He told me that In order to really have a fighting chance, I need to:

1)Build ME time
2)Build more ME time
3)Build more ME time and get a degree

He said one of the best things I could do for myself, is get a 2 year degree, and go to school at ATP. I've noticed alot of these Flight Universitys, that bring you out as a MEI, and with a degree, but alot of these guys seem to get stuck on building the ME time, so they can apply for a job and not look stupid. From what I understand, the ME time ya get at ATP, is alot, and they can hire you on as a MEII to build more time.

I'm willing to do whatever it takes. I come from a well-off family, so money isn't really a problem here. I just want to fly, getting paid, anything at all, is just a bonus.

I know alot of the Big Boy Drivers lurk these forums, so hopefully, someone can shed some light on a road for me, on what they did, what they learned from it, and what they can reccomend for me.

Anything like (go to another profession) will be ignored.
Not an option.

Unless its Computers =]

 

[Jedi_Cheese]

Don't go into computers if you want to go to college (unless you are going to MIT... in which case don't waste your time on flying). Get your A+, MSCE, and other OS/software specific certifications. If you must go to college, go to the best one in your state/region. Else a computer degree is a waste of time/effort (unless you want to party). Trust me, I looked into it and it isn't worth the time to get a degree from Little Name U.

Some places will offer a multi track (you get your ASEL, then AMEL, the AMEL instrument, then com AMEL, then CFI, and then CFI/MEI). You will walk out with alot of multi time but it can get expensive. You do realize that the flight costs alone will be somewhere in the neighborhood of $30k.

If you can, get your pvt before you go to college. It will put you a leg up and keep you out of the idiot classes (taught by the idiot profs to weed out the 'flying looks fun' crowd).

You will have to build total time too. And don't expect to get a multi job right off the bat even if you have 250 multi and 300 tt right out of college. You will have to take a turn in the tiger pit with the students.

 

[350DRIVER]

Jetter,

I like the overwhelming "excitement", "desire", "want", etc, that you seem to have towards a career in this business. I will not attempt to steer you in another direction but I do suggest researching this as much as possible before making a final decision about your "future" career. It is much better to fly for pleasure (in my opinion) versus having to do it as a career and solely relying on it to put food on the table. It looks marvelous from the outside but for those of us who are in the industry in one way or another it is a completely different animal. You have your mind made up so I won't ramble on about looking at another career field. Just make **CENSORED****CENSORED****CENSORED****CENSORED** sure that you know exactly what you are getting yourself into at these early stages prior to making such a choice that may or may not make you happy five years down the line from now. . .

It does not matter whether you go to ATP or not, highly over rated in my opinion in many ways and a lot of money. You can get the same quality of instruction much much cheaper at a smaller flight school.


Since you come from a "well-off family" then you should have it made so who cares about the peanut wages that you will make as a regional pilot?. If you really want to be a pilot then go for it. You will only be as successful as you want to be.


Different strokes for different folks.. Would I do it again knowing what I know now? absolutely not, but you are not me so enjoy..

Anything like (go to another profession) will be ignored.
Not an option.

I would listen to those who have been in the trenches and know the ropes, sometimes you are not always going to hear everything that you want to hear. I suggest that you become a little more "open minded" whether you like the answers or not. You may put lipstick on a pig but it still isn't going to be pretty......

Your friend does have one thing right though, it is indeed all about ME time, especially turbine time (ME) that will allow you to move on to greener pastures.

You can expect to instruct in a single for quite some time before you are going to have enough hours to move on unless you go through a program that is tied in with a regional airline or one that has a bridge program set up to get you hired as less total time than what "outsiders" must have.

Look into the Mesa Airlines Pilot Development Program (MAPD) that is in Farmington New Mexico, by far the quickest way to get from zero time to the right seat at an airline. This is a very intensive and standardized 19 month program, you are trained the airline way from day one, upon completion of the program at around 300 hours you are then going to the right seat of either the CRJ, ERJ, Dash-8, or 1900. You will earn everything but this is one of the best programs out there in my opinion and the bottom line is that it works very well. I have had quite a few friends who went through this program and it does in reality shave years off of what was once considered "normal" times to get hired.

good luck in whatever you decide to do,


3 5 0

 

[Flyin Tony]

All I can say is go for it. If you have the best Dad in the world (like me) talk him into buying a Piper comanche (its got to be a 250 tho) or a TURBO (key word there) Cessna 210, and then maybe a Twin, anything with a Turbo if you live on the west coast. I would say get the stuff done at the local FBO and see if you can get a job there when you are done. But there might not be a twin there. Thats why your Ma and Pops got to chip in and help alittle and buy you a twin (hehe that would be nice to see a twin sitting in my hanger tomorrow ). Then all the other CFI's at the school would want to get ride here and there in the twin and you can keep it cheap that away.

But if you don't have the money to do it that away, I would got to ALL ATPs

See if you can beat me im 18, will have my CFII (im parying) before I get out of high school (thats because im doing the home school thing), and will have to bum rides to work because I wont have my drivers license. It will be fun tho.

And about college you can get your degree as you are doing the CFI thing.
Do one of the Online things

I would think your best bet would be ALL ATP's, or a local FBO
www.AllAtps.com
Hope this helps
Tony

 

[TonyC]

... im 18, ... and will have to bum rides to work because I wont have my drivers license.

What?!?!?!


What's up with THAT?!?!?

 

[nosehair]

Happy Flying

Jetter2, what makes you happy about flying? Is that in a small airplane going slow at low enough to see the trees and fields, and feel the motion, or was it from a jet airliner up so high you couldn't see the ground, and had no sensation of motion?...Think about what you really like about flying. Take the time now, while you are learning. A lot of airline pilots are unhappy because it didn't turn out as much fun as they thought. Everybody has to start out the same...in little airplanes. And learning the multi-engines and jets will be a big thrill in the beginning...but after a while, that becomes a prison to sit in for what seems like eternity. I'm just saying keep your mind open to a variety of possibilities, especially if your prime motivation is the fun factor.

 

[Draginass]

Another starry-eyed wannabe that says he'll do anything to fly commerically. Just what the companies want and one of the things that denegrates the vocation for those who want to actually make a living at it.

Fly recreationally when you can, but go to college and get a degree in something other than aviation that you can make a living at. There is a very high percentage chance that you will not make it as a pilot, and if you do, reality will soon set in and you will see what a lousy vocation it is. You want to have a good education and a saleable skill. Aviation is not that. Don't say you weren't warned.

 

[gear_guy]

If you want to know the truth just ask ATP. They would never lie to you to get your money. Especially with daddy warbuck supportin ya. Shoot, forget college. Just go to FSI and buy a few type ratings.


This is surely flame bait

 

[Jetter2]

Lots of grumpy guys here. Don't piss on my parade. Christ man. I come in here asking for advice and all I hear out of the last few posts is "go elsewhere you wont make it" and then telling me to live off my parents?

Screw you dude. Someone comes in here asking for advice and you have to be a prick about it? Loose the attitude.

As far as Flying, I just like the enviroment. Not flying low or high, just being in the air, in an airplane, not earthbound. Something about it is just fun.

Yeah Yeah, save you're "Its another stary-eyed kid that dosent know the truth" speech, and enlighten me, as oppose to scorn me. Before you go flaming again, just remember, you were once in my exact position. Did having some dude piss and moan about the profession help you out?

Aviation isn't something you can just fall into, so don't pull out the "well my home buisness didn't work".

I've seen far to much negitive critisism on here. I was just asking for some advice, not people to piss and moan.

 

[Flyin Tony]

Dont let these guys get you down.

 

[avbug]

Don't piss on my parade. Christ man. Screw you dude. I was just asking for some advice, not people to piss and moan. Someone comes in here asking for advice and you have to be a prick about it?

Ah, so you only want responses that say what you want to hear. Very well. You'll have a bright future with few obstacles and a sparkling and enchanting voyage through the delightful twists and turns that make an aviation career such a pleasurable experience. Your expensive girlfriend will teach you wonderful lessons by helping you avoid the pitfalls that the massive cashflow from your aeronautical adventures will bring you, and will probably bear you dozens of beautiful, whimsical children.

Or did you want realistic advice, and are simply to shy to ask for it?

Ditch the bitch.

 

[Draginass]

Have you considered trying for military pilot training? However, the competition for military pilot training slots is pretty stiff. The flying is much more challenging, the aircraft much more complex, and there is a sense of comradery that is absent in commercial aviation.

 

[Jetter2]

Ah, so you only want responses that say what you want to hear. Very well. You'll have a bright future with few obstacles and a sparkling and enchanting voyage through the delightful twists and turns that make an aviation career such a pleasurable experience. Your expensive girlfriend will teach you wonderful lessons by helping you avoid the pitfalls that the massive cashflow from your aeronautical adventures will bring you, and will probably bear you dozens of beautiful, whimsical children.

Or did you want realistic advice, and are simply to shy to ask for it?

Ditch the bitch.

Way to be the adult.

I never asked to hear only what I want. I asked for advice, on how I should best go about doing it.

Pissing and moaning to me about how much it sucks blah blah blah dosen't help at all. 350Driver is a perfect example. He gave me some information on the downs of this carrer, but he didnt cry and whine about it.

You would think that people that communicate continually in their carrer,
are better at communicating with people.

Guess thats what I get for thinking

 

[gear_guy]

You would think that people that communicate continually in their carrer,
are better at communicating with people.

Guess thats what I get for thinking

Do you really want to lecture anyone on communication?

Hey man I am not trying to be negative, but you are the one asking for advice here. I don't know where to start. And by the way, I have never been in a position like you. I usually stick up for guys like you, but I thought you needed to hear the truth.

 

[labbats]

Jesus you guys, this board is out of hand. If some of you weenies had to walk out from behind your anonymous computer logins you'd all be singing a different tune. A couple of the responses on this thread make me sick.



The advice your friend gave you is genuine. ME time rules this world. Good luck.

 

[avbug]

I walk out from behind the board and meet people from here and other places on the net all the time.

What I don't care to stomach is the snot nosed attitude of Jetter2. Doesn't like what he hears...should't open his snippy little trap to ask the question in the first place.

Guess thats what I get for thinking

You gotta be kidding, kiddo. You need to think, first.

Don't piss on my parade. Christ man. Screw you dude. I was just asking for some advice, not people to piss and moan. Someone comes in here asking for advice and you have to be a prick about it?

Ah, yes. I almost forgot it was your parade. Three cheers for the brave seventeen year old high school senior with the expensive girl friend. Hip, Hip, Hooray! Hip, Hip, Hooray! Hip, Hip, Hooray! Just spout off, so we'll know which direction to throw the tickertape. No parade is a parade without it.

You just want to fly...getting paid anything at all is just a bonus? Check that, kid. That attitude is the fecal material in the well of all that is wrong in this industry. Perhaps with your well off family you'll go buy a job instead. Then you won't have to worry about poverty...just a way to feed that expensive pet.

 

[Jetter2]

And you you continue to prove that there really the pricks in the industry.

I'm just asking for advice, if that makes me some snot-nosed little kid, then so be it. I really dunno what to tell ya man.

I'm sorry you feel that way.

As much as you people complain about your jobs, then go elsewhere. Leave the door open for those people that will appreciate it, not write threads on how much it sucks and nobody should do it.

 

[350DRIVER]

Jetter2,

With all due respect young one, avbug is a very seasoned, accomplished, and experienced pilot who has been in this "game" for many years. I would not discount his opinion(s) due to the way that he comes across. He is probably the only poster on this board that I will follow regularly. You need to take things with a grain of salt and realize that this industry is not all fun and games.


3 5 0

 

[DX Rick]

Ah, so you only want responses that say what you want to hear. Very well. You'll have a bright future with few obstacles and a sparkling and enchanting voyage through the delightful twists and turns that make an aviation career such a pleasurable experience. Your expensive girlfriend will teach you wonderful lessons by helping you avoid the pitfalls that the massive cashflow from your aeronautical adventures will bring you, and will probably bear you dozens of beautiful, whimsical children.

Or did you want realistic advice, and are simply to shy to ask for it?

Ditch the bitch.

After she see's his first paycheck.....she'll be out there door.

 

[liv'n_on_credit]

I am a Teenage guy, with an expensive girlfriend and only making $900/mo

Jetter2, I have (3) pieces of advice for you.
1) Don't worry about the girl for now. I'm sure she's the sweetest girl in the world, but don't factor her in your career equation. You're much too young to worry about supporting a girl right now. When I was 17, I was exactly in your shoes, a great girl by my side, ready to start life together. Let's just say that about 15 girls and 8 years later I finally found my true wife. Girlfriends are like buses, if you don't make it with one, another will be coming shortly.

2) Listen to the people on this board when they say how hard it is in aviation, we know what we're talking about, but DO NOT stop if aviation is what you have your heart set on. When I started, I knew all the hardships I would encounter, but after looking at the list of career available in the world, aviation was the only one I wanted to do. Now, after being a flight instructor-turned cargo pilot, I am completely happy. I'm married, I sleep with my wife 6 nights out of the week, I make descent money and have a good schedule. But, I know that the next step I make up the ladder may not be so nice. I WILL encounter furloughs, low-pay, etc. But once again, there is nothing else I want to do.

3) And lastly, NEVER, NEVER, NEVER, (one more won't hurt) N-E-V-E-R fly for free when someone is making money off of that flight. Taking your family/friends/girlfriend up for free is fine, as is volunteer work like CAP-nobody is profiting off of you. This also applies when going to a school like Gulfstream where you actually pay them thousands of dollars to receive a job in an airline. Don't ruin it for all of us pilots by supporting a low-life organization like Gulfstream. When people on this board tell you not to do the P-F-T thing, they are correct. It lowers the bar for everyone.

Hope this helps. -Liv'n.