ATP without ICAO mins

[flya380]

Hey folks,

I'm an FO at a regional and I am thinking about getting my ATP before upgrade. My only issue is the PIC time. I have 1600 totals with 320 PIC and 1200 SIC. According to the regs to get the full ATP I need 1200 PIC. I know I can use half ofmy SIC time towards the total PIC but even with that I am still short. 320 + 600= 920 PIC.

My written expires soon and I can't wait for another 600 hours of SIC. I know also I can take the flight test but I should get a restriction on my certificate saying I don't meet the ICAO PIC requirement.

Anybody has done that before? How can you remove the restriction once you reach the 1200 PIC? Does it mean I can still be a captain if i stay in the US?

Thanks for all your infos

 

[regionalcap]

Hey folks,

I'm an FO at a regional and I am thinking about getting my ATP before upgrade. My only issue is the PIC time. I have 1600 totals with 320 PIC and 1200 SIC. According to the regs to get the full ATP I need 1200 PIC. I know I can use half ofmy SIC time towards the total PIC but even with that I am still short. 320 + 600= 920 PIC.

My written expires soon and I can't wait for another 600 hours of SIC. I know also I can take the flight test but I should get a restriction on my certificate saying I don't meet the ICAO PIC requirement.

Anybody has done that before? How can you remove the restriction once you reach the 1200 PIC? Does it mean I can still be a captain if i stay in the US?

Thanks for all your infos

Just a note for you. Your written stays valid since you are employed by a 121 carrier. Are you just trying to get your ATP so you can get on with another company?

 

[flya380]

yes, trying to move on

 

[Metro752]

You can get one frozen in a JAR.

 

[nosehair]

hmmm... I haven't looked at these mins in a longtime, and I thought the 1200 PIC you state was a little high, so I pulled out my ol' part 61, and I only see you need 250 PIC...am I missing something?
61.159(a)(4)

 

[SPilot]

Guess that's what you get when you don't pay your dues with some PIC flying before moving into a right seat position.

 

[Princedietrich]

hmmm... I haven't looked at these mins in a longtime, and I thought the 1200 PIC you state was a little high, so I pulled out my ol' part 61, and I only see you need 250 PIC...am I missing something?
61.159(a)(4)

Well at first I thought there might be an FAR vs ICAO conflict, so I looked up the ICAO requirements for ATP. They pretty much mirror the FAA requirements in terms of flight time required. So I'm a bit stumped as to where that 1200 might be coming from, unless it's a company specific requirement.

 

[flya380]

This is coming from the regs part 61:

You may be issued an ATP certificate with the endorsement "Holder does not meet the pilot in command aeronautical experience requirements of ICAO," if you

1. Credit SIC or flight-engineer time toward the 1,500 hr. total flight time requirement
2. Do not have at least 1,200 hr. of flight time as a pilot, including no more than 50% of your SIC time and none of your flight-engineer time
3. Otherwise meet the aeronautical experience requirements
   NOTE: The endorsement described in item c. above will be removed when you present satisfactory evidence of the accumulation of 1,200 hr. flight time as a pilot including no more than 50% of your SIC time and none of your flight-engineer time

So I made a mistake by stating it was 1200 PIC, it's actually 1200 of flight time as a pilot where your SIC time counts for only half.

 

[Princedietrich]

How can you remove the restriction once you reach the 1200 PIC? Does it mean I can still be a captain if i stay in the US?

Well these two I can answer confidently.

To remove the restriction, all you need to do is bring your logbook to a FSDO and show that you've met the flight time requirements without having to substitute SIC or FE time. Then you fill out an 8710 and you walk out with a new temp that does not have the restriction on it. Having that restriction will affect international operations, but you'll have no worries at all if you stay domestic.