ATP privileges?

[501261]

If your'e talking about a part 61 SIC, who will be conducting operations not outside Part 91 (run of the mill general aviation flying) this is not the case, as no specific instruction is required. The SIC must familiarize himself with the aircraft, systems, proceedures, etc.

Don't forget this "run of the mill" SIC is also required to have 3 TO's and Landings, plus the required Single Engine stuff (61.55b2).

I believe this is what pilotviolin was referring to. In this case the PIC is NOT acting as an instructor. That PIC is simply "checking out" (as provided by 61.55f) an SIC and not providing "instruction".

 

[avbug]

Don't forget this "run of the mill" SIC is also required to have 3 TO's and Landings,

Not if the training for the SIC qualification has been received under Part 142 in a simulator. In that case, in accordance with 61.55(h), only one takeoff and landing is necessary in the airplane.

 

[pilotviolin]

What if in my Gulfstream I am checking out a SIC and it takes about 100 before I feel comfortable with his flying abilities as sic. I dont work for no "company" because it is my airplane. How does the person log this time. He is not pic or sic?

 

[Tinstaafl]

Are you operating the aircraft under part 135, 91, or some other section? I'm not sure but there may be some limitation or privilege accorded as result.

 

[501261]

What if in my Gulfstream I am checking out a SIC and it takes about 100 before I feel comfortable with his flying abilities as sic. I dont work for no "company" because it is my airplane. How does the person log this time. He is not pic or sic?

Doesn't matter how you "feel" about it, the FAR's are pretty clear. A Gulfstream needs a PIC and an SIC, no matter what, so you are either operating that airplane legally with a "qualified" SIC, or ILLEGALLY.

According to the FAR's to be qualified as a SIC you need to have complied with FAR 61.55 (i.e., 3 t/os and landings, etc.), after that, that person may log all the SIC time they want.

Incidentally, said SIC can also log those 3 T/o's and landings as SIC time under 61.55f.

Doesn't really matter if the company doesn't feel you're qualified to SIC until 100 hours, that's fine for the company, but as far as the FAA is concerned you're either a legal SIC or you're not.

FAR 61.55 spells it all out for you!

 

[midlifeflyer]

Post deleted

 

[aeronautic1]

why did the chicken cross the road...

So, if the Gulfstream requires a PIC and SIC, but the SIC doesn't have three take offs and landings in 90, then how can the SIC get his currency when the aircraft requires two qualified pilots? Whoa, my head is spinning!!

 

[Lead Sled]

So, if the Gulfstream requires a PIC and SIC, but the SIC doesn't have three take offs and landings in 90, then how can the SIC get his currency when the aircraft requires two qualified pilots? Whoa, my head is spinning!!

Simple...
Just go make the takeoffs and landings without any passengers. I've done my share in training in airplanes that required two crew members. I was typed in the G-200 before the simulator was on line. Does this mean that when I was getting checked out in the airplane we were illegal? There wasn't a properly checked out SIC on board. By the way, reread the regs, a SIC requires more than just some takeoffs and landings.

'Sled

 

[O-Line]

So, if the Gulfstream requires a PIC and SIC, but the SIC doesn't have three take offs and landings in 90, then how can the SIC get his currency when the aircraft requires two qualified pilots? Whoa, my head is spinning!!

Actually, if you read 61.57, only the PIC is required to have 3 T/O's and landings in 90 days.

SIC currency again falls under 61.55, which basically say 3 T/O's and landings plus required training every 12 calendar months.

 

[Lead Sled]

Actually, if you read 61.57, only the PIC is required to have 3 T/O's and landings in 90 days. SIC currency again falls under 61.55, which basically say 3 T/O's and landings plus required training every 12 calendar months.

O-line, that was the point I was getting at. It takes more than simply making a few t/o's and landings to be a qualified SIC.

In the real world, frequently even that isn't enough. The insurance companies will determine what the real minimums are and they often want some sort of formal school at least annually.

'Sled

 

[O-Line]

O-line, that was the point I was getting at. It takes more than simply making a few t/o's and landings to be a qualified SIC.

In the real world, frequently even that isn't enough. The insurance companies will determine what the real minimums are and they often want some sort of formal school at least annually.

'Sled

Oh, I couldn’t agree more! The thing we all have to remember is there is a difference between being “LEGAL” and being “insurable”, and even more important neither means you are safe.

In the real world being Legal is just the bare minimum standard, Insurance is a more “realistic” standard, and being safe is what we all strive to be.

 

[Lead Sled]

In the real world being Legal is just the bare minimum standard, Insurance is a more “realistic” standard, and being safe is what we all strive to be.

Very well said. One of the first things that any pilot needs to learn that what is legal isn't always safe. Another thing that pilots run into soon enough it that it's not the FAA that determines who can fly what - it's those pesky insurance companies.

Getting a pilot’s license or a new is nothing more than a license to learn. There is perhaps nothing more dangerous than a “green” instrument pilot out in the weather. Passing a written and taking a checkride no more makes you an instrument pilot than buying a piano would make you a concert pianist. We all start out “green”, but as we gain more experience, hopefully, we become “seasoned”. That’s what experience does for you, you don’t manipulate the controls “better”, you just fly “smarter”.

Us old farts can’t let our guard down either. I remember reading about safety plateaus. Accidents seem to cluster at certain distinct points – 100 hours, 500 hours, 1000 hours, 3000 hours, 10000 hours, and 20000 (if I remember correctly). This occurs not only with total time, but also with “time in type”. There is a real tendency to get too comfortable and let your guard down. A 10000-hour pilot with 3000 hours in type needs to be careful that he doesn’t get complacent or he too, will get bit.

Unfortunately, over the years, I have known many good pilots who have died in aircraft accidents. When it happens, it is a VERY sobering experience. All too often, as you look back on the events surrounding the accident it becomes very apparent that, in many cases, it was very avoidable. It’s all too easy to let bad operating practices creep into our day-to-day flying. Like the guy said when St. Peter met him at the Pearly Gates, “It never killed me before!”

'Sled