ATP Instructor Placement

[JB74]

ATP now considers interested CFI Program graduates for an instructor position with ATP. These positions were previously offered only to Airline Career Pilot Program graduates, but with the increasing pace of regional airlines hiring ATP flight instructors, ATP is extending this consideration to CFI Program graduates as well.

Just read this on their site. Good news for anyone interested in the $4995 CFI/II/MEI course.

Here is the link

http://www.allatps.com/programs/certificates/cfi/cfi_program.html

 

[TRLpilot]

i've heard the cfi pay at allatps really sucks, yes, more than the usual cfi job. i've heard they consider the cheap housing deal they have as part of your pay even if you don't use it.

this is from the rumour mill so i would like to hear some firsthand experience if it's out there. otherwise allatps seems to have a top-notch, respected program and i'm considering going there for training.

can someone enlighten me about the instructor life?

 

[Vladimir Lenin]

i've heard the cfi pay at allatps really sucks, yes, more than the usual cfi job. i've heard they consider the cheap housing deal they have as part of your pay even if you don't use it.

this is from the rumour mill so i would like to hear some firsthand experience if it's out there. otherwise allatps seems to have a top-notch, respected program and i'm considering going there for training.

can someone enlighten me about the instructor life?

yea, seriously, I'd plunk five grand down if I knew they'd hire me as an MEI

 

[JB74]

can someone enlighten me about the instructor life?

Last I heard, $10 per flight hour, no pay for ground. Average 80-120 hours per month.

Benefit is that when you hit 1000 hours, 700 of it will be multi.

Yes the pay blows, but what is multi time worth to someone?

I am seriously rethinking where I am going to do my instructor ratings!

 

[Flyin Tony]

Thats where im going. Dont know if i will CFI there. But have a job at AppleValley airport CFI'ing, when ever i get my stuff done. Shouldn't be too long.

 

[TRLpilot]

i agree the multi time is invaluable and makes $10/hr tolerable.

i have heard, however, that they deduct the cost of a shared apartment that is provided whether or not you use it. that gave me a bit of a gasp. can someone confirm that one way or the other?

 

[CDVdriver]

Considers...

ATP considers CFI graduates for positions.
I think the key word here is considers, that's not much of a garantee is it?
Kind of sounds like ...." hmmm we might consider it.."
$10/hr well at least you get an instructor motivated to fly and not to spend useless time on something like ground school. (insert sarcasm here...)

 

[huncowboy]

I think this is a pretty good deal considering that just about all the big schools pay like $10ish and only for billed flight, sim, or ground time. Not to mention that 5k for the CFI, CFII, MEI is hard to beat and you did not lose anything if you got your tickets for that price at (what seems to be) a quality place. (Just for the record, I myself have never trained at ATP or know anyone there other than reading posts on several boards).



Talking about guarantees... I don’t know what is up with people who are trying to find guarantees here. What are you guys used to? There aren’t many industries where you are you going to get a guaranteed job, just because you have paid for training. On top of my head, I can’t name any. It is not like you go to XY university and they will guarantee, that you'll land in a fortune 100 job if you finish their MBA. If they guarantee you a job (like police departments do for example), than usually they also pay for the training, BUT they will screen you extensively in advance, AND the job is STILL ONLY conditional upon successful completion of the training. BECAUSE there is still a chance that you are an idiot and you will wash out. However prescreening is not very feasible for a school that is trying to sell something, namely training.



There are plenty "capable" candidates all over the place who will spend 100-300 hours just on the CFI ticket when normal people will get it in 30-50 or in even much less time at an FBO as there is no minimum aeronautical experience required for the CFI. Are you willing to guarantee a job to these guys? Nope. Are you going to refuse their money? Why would you? Plus it is not like you know in advance that this guy will turn out to be a lazy slacker who thinks it is all ‘bout flyin’. They will spend the dough somewhere anyways until they learn it the hard way. Aviation is competitive, starting with getting a CFI job. So why don't we just get over this guarantee thing because there is no such a thing.



Furthermore if you do a little math: An average person will get ALL his/her ratings (incl. MEI) in say 250-350TT. An average CFI needs right now about what? 1200-1500TT to bail from the flight school for a regional. So that leaves us with the simple fact that every CFI needs to finish at least 3-4 candidates, from zero to MEI, in order to be able to bail. That may be decreased down a little to 2-3 if you take into account that you will also do (at some places, but not at big schools) some flight reviews, proficiency checks, checkouts, ferry flight etc. Except if you are at a school that is designed around providing programs primarily for people who would like to go to the airlines because than you won’t see many people walking in for an instrument proficiency check. The result is that not every candidate that enrolls will finish or get hired as a CFI. Without washouts we would have an increasing backlog of CFIs by a factor of 2 or 3 with every “generation” of CFIs. That is the reality people.



Sorry but I had to get this out.



INCOOOOOMING.......….

 

[JB74]

Talking about guarantees... I don’t know what is up with people who are trying to find guarantees here. What are you guys used to?

I don't think anyone is under that assumption.

BECAUSE there is still a chance that you are an idiot and you will wash out.

For $5k, I am willing to take their "idiot" test.

 

[Sig]

The pay is 1000/mo base plus a small bonus. The cheap housing was only available at the career pilot locations at 200/mo.

They consider 'outside' applicants as needed.

 

[huncowboy]

I don't think anyone is under that assumption.

Ummm... No. People are not under the assumption but they keep bringing the argument up. I have seen hundreds of comments on several aviation boards from people critizising the fact that the job is not guaranteed at the end of the day be that a CFI job or an FO job. It keeps popping up. I don't know which forums you are reading if you have not seen an argument like: "Yeah but they don't guarantee that you will get hired."

The ATP deal for $5k is a no brainer with or without a job offer at the end. That is like FBO price or less.

 

[Vladimir Lenin]

Yea, I think for a $1000 a month I will take it. It's a litle less than what I am making right now, but I don't get multi either.

 

[TRLpilot]

Thanks for the info, Sig.

I'm thinking the guy I am referring to that mentioned the housing bit was involved in the career program. He lived with his parents close to the airport and didn't think he should be paying for something he didn't use. Looking at AllATPS's website it is an included cost of the program.

$1000/mo base is acceptable if it's guaranteed (I mean the money, not the job). I know a couple of CFIs at FBOs that wish they had that sort of deal, we've had a rainy first half of June and little decent weather for PPL students.

Sig, can you give any insight into work schedules (hours at the airport per day, days off, etc)?

 

[Sig]

Sig, can you give any insight into work schedules (hours at the airport per day, days off, etc)?

Well, it depends. RIC doesn't see as much flying as JAX, so your days are decided by the base. At the busiest locations, expect extremely long days. There were a few days of shutting down the engines at midnight, another 90 minutes of debrief and paperwork, and then I was back at 6:30 opening shop and getting things ready for the checkride(s). The greatest of all was the all-day-long sim and groundathons.

Just got called- have to go start the platypus. I'll write later.

 

[Kaman]

Hello,

I did the Total CFI program at ALLATPS location in Jacksonville, FL (Craig Field) about 18 months ago. It is an excellent program to get all your CFI tickets punched in a very short period of time. Be prepared when you go down there to "eat,sleep, drink" flying and you won't have any troubles. In other words, "cooperate and graduate"
The two weeks is broken up into three phases:

1. Phase 1: 3-Day ground school reviewing lesson plans, FARS, Seminole/C172 information and a review of stall/spin Advisory circular.
2. Phase 2: Flight training in the Seminole; MEI stuff, and ALOT of approaches! I think I did approaches at every airport in NE FL/SE GA. However, it is great experience. Somewhere during this phase you'll probably do your spin endorsement training. You'll go out with an instructor in a C-172 and do various spin entries/recoveries, including recognition of spiral mode (more dangerous than spinning in some ways).
3. Checkride(s): You'll go to either Stuart or FLL for your intial CFI and CFII. ATPS will fly you down to FLL commercial (SWA for me), pay for a rental car/hotel. The checkrides in FFL are down out of the FLL Jet Center, which is adjacent to the tower and the Bombardier facility. Oral is about a 2 hour evolution followed by a 1.0 flight. Examiner is very fair and is also helpful with the airspace. Typically, you'll depart from 9R and go easterly for the airwork. Once this is complete you'll got to a small airport just south of FLL for some Touch and Go's. Then back to FLL. CFII ride was actually tougher in my mind, because in addition to the partial panel stuff, he will kill an engine on you as well. Coupled with a strange airport/approach it was demanding to say the least. Follow your ATP checklists/call-outs/procedures and you'll do fine. Lastly, you'll go back to Craig for a couple of flights in 172 and your SE add-on checkride. Pretty much an easy checkride for the most part. Examiner in Craig likes to spin and plan on doing at least 2, I did 3. Not because I gooned the first two It's a quick 1.0 flight. He only hits the Stall/Spin stuff on the oral at least in my case. Obviously, this is a high area of emphasis.

General comments about ATP:
They operate with minimal office staff to keep overhead down, so the flight instructors ARE the office staff. This led to some interuptions in training, which I personally found annoying, but I also understood. You do get what you pay for, so you have to accept some customer service glitches. Aircraft maintenance is good, I had a few problems with airplanes, but they were fixed promptly. Quality of instruction is a roll of the dice. I had a decent an instructor given her own limited experience, but they do know the Seminole/ATP procedures and basically are teaching you to the test. So, don't go down there expecting to pick-up a lot of real-world experience from the instructors that are doing the add-on training.
I can also confirm that the instructors are paid $1000/mo. salary and 24/7 availability is expected from what I could see the instructors there put in some long hours either covering the office or doing flight/ground instruction. Make the most of it, and you'll leave there a better pilot. Alot of the things I learned there operating the Seminole I apply to this day flying 135 freight. Good habits are hard to break!

Regards,

ex-Navy Rotorhead

 

[Sig]

Kaman's on the money.

It is friggin' hard at the ACPP locations (DFW for me), no days off unless wx precludes DRIVING to the airport (you can always sim and ground, or even proctor a written).

Especially true is the fact that the instructors know that airplane better than any, and I'll wager my donkey on that.

I'll be honest- I'm extremely glad instructing there is behind me, though. They work you exceptionally hard, and rewards are multi time and... multi engine time.