ATP Flight School Good Or Bad?

[dhc8fo]

The other thing you need to consider with ATP is that you will really only "get" half the time promised. The other half is spent as your flight partner's safety pilot. So make sure the numbers are actual hands on PIC when you are comparing.

 

[kc135ang]

I did ATPs 90 day program back in 1999 and I have to say I was pleased. Back then the program went for either 16 or 18K and for the most part the instructors were decent, but theirs always the exception. I also recieved nearly 30 t0 40 hours of extra multi time because ATP had really bad record keeping back then but that changed whrn I started to instruct for them. By the way you will learn a ton of information from instructing. i recommend it, even though some would disagree.

my two cents!

 

[Almerick07]

As far as monarch air is concerned they make most their money on mx, every airplane there gets a 50hr opposed to the standard 100hr. Top notch facility, and you'll practically be instrument proficient right off the bat having to get clearances anytime you want to fly south. They have older airplanes that rent pretty cheap and newer ones for a little more. All my training during my ppl was in a 172 mostly P model. The checkride guy down there "smitty" is a fair and super nice old man. I regret not getting all my ratings there. PM me if you want some more info, I used to live in that area as well.

 

[Matt777]

The other thing you need to consider with ATP is that you will really only "get" half the time promised. The other half is spent as your flight partner's safety pilot. So make sure the numbers are actual hands on PIC when you are comparing.

Yep- a little bit of false advertising there.

200hours
- 10 172
- 50 FTD
- 37.5 (half of 75 hrs Cross country as PIC)
--------
102.5 real multi time
(and 3 of that 102.5 is "_UP TO_ 3 hours Cessna Citation"

Is FTD Multi time worth anything at all?
Where it actually matters- on the resume you send to the airlines is the FTD time counted as part of your multiengine time? (I'm guessing the answer is no).

The school that my friend who is a UPS pilot is recommending is Mazzei where you get 200 hours (which is actually 50 hours more REAL (non FTD time) than ATP, BUT you only get 50 multi. But it is also $2,000 less than ATP and includes a paid for apartment- for 7 months compared to ATP's 3 month program.

But Mazzei is not financed by Key Bank (who I already have a loan with), they are financed by Sally Mae and it seems that they have a 5% or more loan fee (which is big money on $50,000) PLUS repayment fees!

I need to get a list of all the schools financed by Key.

But as far as I know only ATP and Mazzei guarantee a fixed price for training.

Basically it seems like I'm hearing negative things about ATP from people who haven't ever gone there and from the people who actually went there I am hearing that they really liked the program a lot.

I don't like what comes across as false advertising because you don't get 75 PIC, you get half, but based on the numbers and the opinions of those who've actually attended ATP, ATP is still in first place.


thanks to everyone who has responded so far!

 

[Matt777]

Phase I

[size=+0]Phase I of the Professional Pilot Program navigates pilots-in-training from zero flight experience to a Commercial Pilot Rating. Utilizing a regimented training syllabus, students are able to progress quickly and economically through their flight training. Phase I is complete when the student has achieved the following:[/size]

[size=+0]190 hours total flight time[/size]
[size=+0]Private Pilot, Airplane Single Engine Land[/size]
[size=+0]Commercial Pilot, Airplane Single Engine Land / Instrument[/size]
[size=+0]Commercial Pilot, Airplane Multi-Engine Land / Instrument [/size]


Phase I Package Cost - $ 24,952.55


The CFI/II can be added to the above> Phase II Package Cost - $ 4,366.40


This is just one example of many, do the research

The problem is that I am restricted to schools who provide housing.
Where is the best place to start on researching flight schools? I've been reading the jetcareers forum since my UPS friend directed me there... he recommends going to an FBO, but in a big city like Seattle every FBO is extremely expensive- due to their overhead I would guess.

I know about Ari-ben and I've reasearched enough to learn that PanAm and Flightsafety are a rip-off- and that DCA is worse.

I could move to Dallas (or wherever there are cheap FBOs) and _hope_ to find a job there, but going off to ATP and having a paid-for apartment and just knocking the ratings out and getting employed so I can start accruing experience sounds a lot more promising to me. Keep in mind that ATP's price does include 3 months of apartment rental.

If I could find a local FBO that offered a $29,500 program like the one you pasted above I would definitely go for that. If I could buy an RV for under $9,000 then I could go to that cheap FBO above and save about $1,000.
And minus the gas money to get there- then it is the same price as ATP.

When I took out my loan 3 months ago I was going to do it all at my local FBO for $40,000, but you only get 50 hours multi and I am not happy with the unstructured environment.

 

[Matt777]

$8,200 for the private course?. Ouch, did this include any fancy extras like a Boise X headset?. Seems like you could have done the same course for $5995 and even that seems a tad high. http://www.flyoft.com/private_pilot.php

That flight school is almost the same price as mine because if I had bought a block of 152 time instead of 172 I would have saved $1,320, but their 152s are beat up heaps and the 172s are new. Since I thought I was going to finish my PPL and get started on the IR well before I used up the 40 hour block it made since to go for the 172 time since you can't do the IR in the 152.

I used 33 hours to get my private- I suppose I wasted 3 hours soling trying to get my maneuvers "too perfect" for the checkride.

The smaller flight schools can offer reduced rates and for the most part are cheaper, substantially cheaper in my opinion due to lower overhead costs, small size of the operation, the setup, etc, etc. I don't personally have the time to compare one school to another school but if cost is not a concern then by all means disregard my previous post and response.

For about a month back in in '99 I went to one of these small schools to save money , but the 1 hour drive each way just didn't work for the long term "train at least every other day" situation. Not to mention the gas cost which (especially now) would negate any savings.

85 hours of flying city to city is not the answer to obtaining the "experience" which really only comes over a period of time.

Oh I know- that's not what I meant. I plan to fly freight before applying at Horizon. I just thought that getting 85 hours of cross country time would be a good experience, though not even remotely equal to the experience gained in real freight flying.

Take things you read on this board with a grain of salt, opinions are like a$$holes, everyone has one.

good luck in whatever you decide to do

You may want to look into the Mesa Airlines Pilot Development Program (MAPD) if your goal is to get to the airlines, even this 19 month program is cheaper (or was) and most all successful applicants upon completion of this program are hired on by Mesa to fly the CRJ700/900, EMB145, or Dash8. The program works, do a board search, I have attributed much to the subject over the past few years.

I found a couple things about MAPD here, but it looks like it costs more than ATP. After glancing at just the few posts I found last night, it looks like a DCA kind of thing where they promise you a job and charge you a lot- and that there is a 1 year wait to get hired by Mesa.
I'll do another search on it now.

I just want to get my ratings for cheap- but I need a place to sleep to be part of the deal.


thanks for your help



(Hey Flydrummer- I'm up in Seattle. It's cheaper down past Tacoma across the narrows bridge at TIW (Tacoma Narrows), but it is a 1 hour plus drive.
Seattle recently ranked as one of the worst cities to live in in some magazine due to the high cost of living).

 

[Almerick07]

I could move to Dallas (or wherever there are cheap FBOs) and _hope_ to find a job there,

You could easily find an apartment for $400 a month all bills paid in the DFW area, also DFW is a HUGE metro with many airports. In regards to Monarch Air if you get your CFI there you will have a job. Plus $14 an hour is a decent rate for a big FBO. Dallas is a great place to live with regards to aviation, very very central location in the US and where I used to live there were TONS of pilots. Monarch Air also has very wealthy clients, I know of one who bought a cirrus for his training and another who bought a baron....not rare for some serious networking and oppertunities.

 

[BluDevAv8r]

FWIW, I happen to be a fan of the ATP program...provided that the student is a self-starter and a self-motivated person who is willing to go the extra mile on their own. If they need stuff force-fed to them (everyone learns differently), then ATP is not the place for you. The multi-time as well as the real world XC time is very valuable, and I believe half of their airplanes are new Seminoles with Garmins and autopilots, etc. This recommendation comes from someone who did their ratings at mom and pop schools. Another avenue to consider is to buy a light twin (preferably with 1 to 3 other people) and do all of your ratings in that airplane (with a competent and motivated local MEI).

-Neal

 

[bender]

I'm a current instructor for ATP and enjoying my time here. To answer a few questions brought up in this thread; Yes, your experience with ATP will vary based on your instructor but I think this is a problem that isn't specific to us. Yes, you must be self-motivated and study on your own in order to succeed in the program. No, our aircraft are not equipped with autopilots. If you have a question I can answer it in this thread or you can PM me.

I've also told two students that I couldn't sign them off because they weren't going to be ready for their checkrides in the time allowed.

 

[flydrummer]

Just went to the ATP site.....if you're gonna enroll do it now casue I saw that after November 1st they're gonna add a $4000 fuel surcharge to their program.