Atp 14 Day Cfi Program

[Mazdarx7]

Im looking into attending. just wondering if anyone could share their experiences, both good and bad about it....Seems quick for CFI/II/MEI to get em all in 14 days... Also, anyone have any negative feedback from flight schools in regards to being hired..Ie, has any school stated they felt that b/c its a crash course that you might not be the best candidate.. Any info is apprecited..Thanks!

 

[Black Hawk]

Good questions. My feeling is that if you're going to attend a quickie course with 3 checkrides in 2 weeks you really need to know what you're doing prior to showing up. While you certainly will learn something, a course like that is more of a certification process rather than an initial learning process. I wouldn't worry about where you get the certificates (assuming good instruction) unless there is a particular place you would like to teach. Not a bad idea to go there to get to know them and let them get to know you.

 

[flyinghunter]

Good questions. My feeling is that if you're going to attend a quickie course with 3 checkrides in 2 weeks you really need to know what you're doing prior to showing up. While you certainly will learn something, a course like that is more of a certification process rather than an initial learning process. I wouldn't worry about where you get the certificates (assuming good instruction) unless there is a particular place you would like to teach. Not a bad idea to go there to get to know them and let them get to know you.

Ditto that, I went to ATP and completed all three in eleven days. What I found out after I was done is they didn't teach me how to teach, kind of ironic. They send you a packet and syllabus that you should look over. I spent the two weeks prior to the course studying my rear off. If you fill out all the study preps they send you it will go pretty smoothly. From my experience, the chekcrides in FL seem to be canned checkrides. Overall, a great place to get the certificates, but without my training at school I don't know how comfortable I would've been with my first students. The only problem I had with getting a job was I only had 235 hours when I was done with all of my certificates.

 

[mcjohn]

But they're not 141. How could you have all that with only 235 hours?

Also, regarding places teaching you to teach. It doesn't really happen that way. The only way you become a skilled instructor is by going out there and doing it. Remember, the backbone of instructing is the gradual transfer of controls to the student. As long as you're safe in the right seat and know what's expected of all the maneuvers, you teach yourself how to teach by experiencing all the different personalities.

Know the Fundamentals of Instruction! Not necessarily the learning is meaningful, purposeful, etc... crap. It's the defense mechanisms that you'll have to deal with A LOT. How you handle all that can make or break you.

Also of importance, the building block concept, you can't force feed a student info.

Other than that be a great stick in the right seat and sharp on the radio and you're good to go! Good luck.

Oh yeah, I have to edit this in, it is unlikely that you'll use the CFII and MEI very much off the bat. If you want to save some money and really focus on training private pilots well, you may want to consider just getting the CFI and hold off on the II and MEI.

 

[flyinghunter]

I went to a 141 one school and finished all of my stuff at 215 hours. I agree that nobody can teach you how to teach, but from my experience there they barely scratched the surface on common student errors, which I know are in the PTs, but stuff like that. It was a good deal for me though. I was really current and proficient on all of the stuff so it was easy and I never really struggled making the transition to the right seat.

 

[Black Hawk]

from my experience there they barely scratched the surface on common student errors

A few hours of teaching with new pilots will fix that.

 

[Amish RakeFight]

Remember, the backbone of instructing is the gradual transfer of controls to the student.

I let the students fly the plane from day 1. No gradual transfers other than landing the plane.

Oh yeah, I have to edit this in, it is unlikely that you'll use the CFII and MEI very much off the bat. If you want to save some money and really focus on training private pilots well, you may want to consider just getting the CFI and hold off on the II and MEI.

The MEI is worth getting even if you can't get an instructing job due to low ME time. Many schools have insurance mins. that are hard to meet.

There will be many oppourtunities to fly right seat in a twin that you can log as PIC as MEI. Some multiengine owners may want you along for safety and you'll buld that magical ME time. Without the MEI you might miss some chances to accumulate twin time.

 

[mcjohn]

That's true. Some good points. But don't forget, if you have just a plain multi rating you can ride in the right seat and log PIC if the guy in the left seat is under the hood. Many folks have logged a lot of multi time that way for years. Just ask that guy Ari Ben.

 

[Amish RakeFight]

I was just clarifying the transfer of the controls thing. You probably meant to say the gradual transfer of authroity or somethign like that. Gradually transforming the student into the PIC.

I wonder how the ari ben time is viewed with the airlines though. the 50/50 pay for 100 ME.

 

[G2T]

If you want to save some money and really focus on training private pilots well, you may want to consider just getting the CFI and hold off on the II and MEI.

If you have the resources, I say get that II asap. Many places don't want a CFI without the II. They want a flexible staff where they are not limited with how they can use you. Same goes for the mei. My first few students were instrument students!

Also, I instructed at a school that did the quick cfi package ratings. It is not so much the school that is the variable as it is the student. As someone else said, it is more of a certification process. If the students knew their stuff and were proficient at Comm manuevers and flying instruments, it was usually no problem, the instructors could focus on the right seat flying and teaching aspects. Where we always had problems was when we had to take most of our time to reteach a chandelle or regain instrument proficiency.

 

[mcjohn]

I remember Sheble's had a couple guys instructing there that didn't have the CFII. But they would give a good bit of instrument training. You know, outside of the 15 dual by a II requirement. Instructor/Safety pilot.
Rare situation. But it's also rare that none of Sheble's planes were IFR certified and the weather there is almost always VFR.

Man, I've got to get my CFII knocked out! I dread taking that stinkin freakin written over again. So far that rule pisses me off more than any other. So far.

 

[mcjohn]

I wonder how the ari ben time is viewed with the airlines though. the 50/50 pay for 100 ME.

IMO based on what I've heard, they could care less. You'd probably be better off doing that at Ari Ben or ATP because they do some kind of airline CRM flow thingy that preps well for the F/O duties. Ari Ben also has a program with Colgan. I'm pretty sure the airlines (should be saying commuters) are just abiding by insurance requirements. Sometimes they probably wish the multi mins weren't so high when they're struggling to fill the pool. Just a guess though.

I'll tell you the worst thing about the 50/50 deal. It kind of rips the student/client off. It gives the school a HUUUUGE profit margin. Seriously, if you wanted to get rich by starting a flight school, make sure it's a rating mill or a multi time building program.
Ari Ben, ATP, and Sheble. The owner of Sheble told me how much that school rakes in and they're half the cost of ATP!

 

[Yodafly]

I went to ATPs prof pilot program and instruct ratings. Great way to get your ratings quickly. I went to Jax. In my opinion there is no cheeper or quicker way to do it. go for it

 

[PositionandHold]

Good program. Just come prepared and memorize the Seminole booklet and know your stuff before you get there. I would not recommend the program to someone who is not instrument proficient. I did the program a few weeks after my Comm. checkride, so it wasn't too bad.

You learn to teach by teaching, btw.