ATN ALPA Letter from SWA

[MILF Hunter]

My AirTran buddy sent me a copy of the letter you recieved from Van de Ven. He said that after you guys read our Transition Agreement and understood its implications, getting this letter from SWA was a huge sigh of relief. Having now read the letter I must ask, "Am I missing something?"

All I see is a letter saying SWA won't intentionally violate your contract. They still won't talk to ALPA until you are represented by SWAPA, which could be several years from now. In the meantime, I agree with others' assessments that even with your Section 1 language, Gary is free to operate you as a wholly owned indefinitely or even divest assets if necessary.

Finally, I noticed the date on the letter is BEFORE that of our Transition Agreement. This letter was not a remedy to cure your fears, it was simply satiafying a contractual requirement to write to you. What the letter doesn't say is that SWA can abide by your contract while simultaneously honoring each part of our Transition Agreement.

So again I ask, "Am I missing something?"

At least y'all reached a Process Agreement with SWAPA. My buddy said many in your group are glad the ALPA MC was able to finish the Process and move on to SLI talks.

 

[fuzzy077]

Stop lying, you don't have any buddies.

 

[iluvflying]

So again I ask, "Am I missing something?"

QUOTE]

Yeah, your character. That is all you have in life and for some reason the Southwest pilots on this baord are willing to sell it so you can try to promote fear.

Why in the hell are you so eager to destroy another man for the gain of your own?

 

[fuzzy077]

Also, your CEO and several high ranking officials within your company have publicly stated several times that they are going to combine operations and employee groups into one carrier. So, unless "I'm missing something," your post is just another bit of incendiary flamebate. Thank you, please drive through.

 

[Lear70]

OK guys, calm down. He asked a serious question and doesn't understand the underlying language MV agreed to honor. Just give the man a serious answer:

Yes, you're missing our entire Section 1 of our CBA, which few of you have evidently read and which is what MV agreed to abide by. This includes, among other things:

1. Combining operations within 18 months.

2. The combining operations requirement is binding not only on the entity that purchases us but ALSO on THEIR parent entity and any other airlines that parent entity might also hold operational control of. This means that it doesn't matter that it's Guadalupe that's doing the actual purchase "on paper", with Southwest Holdings as the parent company and Southwest Airlines being an airline that "is also controlled by the parent company", they have to merge the groups.

3. No siphoning off of our aircraft. No aircraft may be transferred or sold whereby a reduction of more than 8% of capacity by ASM's is incurred.

4. No furloughs OR DOWNGRADES by reduction in fleet or reshuffling of bases for our aircraft. That means no siphoning off aircraft that would cause a downgrade or furlough AND no transferring 717's to other parts of the country creating a displacement.

There's a bunch of other things in there that are more minor, such as no checking of our pilots by anyone other than AirTran check airmen, etc, but the end result is the same as it was before: They're going to combine operations. That's why none of us are even responding to Bob Dylan and other nay-sayers anymore. We're not worried about it and it's not worth the angst to even bother replying to the flame bait (and rather bad flame bait at that).

It's time to sit back and let the process work itself out as both sides have agreed to. We both have our teams working on it, and when it's done, we'll get down to the business of expanding the Southwest banner throughout the Caribbean and hopefully, soon, Hawaii, South America, Canada (yeah, I said it), and maybe even Europe some day.

"The future's so bright... I gotta wear shades!"

Ya'll fly safe out there...

 

[ASADFW7]

I agree that Airtran pilots have more reasons to feel like they are hanging on the tail of the dog. Lear posted a long list and multiple items contradict SL8. Good luck all.

 

[Lear70]

I agree that Airtran pilots have more reasons to feel like they are hanging on the tail of the dog. Lear posted a long list and multiple items contradict SL8. Good luck all.

It's definitely been a lot like "hanging on the tail of the dog". Knowing now that legally-speaking it would be VERY difficult to NOT integrate the groups after the letters and SEC statements takes a LOT of the real concern off and goes a LONG way towards ensuring AirTran pilots accept the Southwest culture and make it our own in the future. Smart move by SWA management, actually.

As far as the laundry list that contradicts SL8... they all go away once the integration is complete and all pilots are represented by SWAPA. That means it's in everyone's best interest to get it done sooner than later, which is a good thing.

Tensions will run high during all this, I just hope we can all treat each other respectfully, as not only fellow aviators but just as human beings, and realize that in the end, we all have to work together for years to come. :beer:

 

[slaquer5]

Tensions will run high during all this, I just hope we can all treat each other respectfully, as not only fellow aviators but just as human beings, and realize that in the end, we all have to work together for years to come. :beer:

Amen. Could you please put that at the bottom of all your posts.

 

[SWA/FO]

getting this letter from SWA was a huge sigh of relief

Much like the letter the Midway Pilots got from NWA saying "welcome aboard" in 1991.

 

[Lear70]

Don't recall that one being a legal letter agreeing to abide by a contract... Have a link?

 

[SWA/FO]

No, you got me....sorry. I was just pointing out - that the Midway guys felt good, when they saw that letter, too. Of course, Guadalupe Holdings has to honor your contract.

Guadalupe Holdings will abide by your contract since you will be working for them.

Over at Southwest Airlines the SWAPA contract is in force, and will be. Its Twenty-four months... not the 18 you all spout off about . 24 months which may be extended by mutual agreement between SWA and SWAPA. :0 Since you guys can't really see any really raises....out of this deal, whats the big deal?

imp:

 

[Lear70]

The Guadalupe issue is a zebra, no one here is worried about it. Southwest is purchasing AirTran and MV's letter SPECIFICALLY STATES Southwest is a "successor" as defined in Section 1 and will adhere to our CBA. Here's the specifics:

Southwest Airlines will be a "successor" as defined in the Agreement between AirTran and ALPA. As such, Southwest agrees that during the period of separate Pilot operations following close, it will adhere to and apply the provisions of the AirTran/ALPA Agreement

Our guys on our forum have been talking and have NO issue with 24 months at all (general line pilots), we just want to make sure that integration DOES happen (it's NOT extendable unless we allow it too) and that the rest of our Section 1 gets adhered to (not splitting us up and selling us piecemeal, taking aircraft, furloughs and displacements, etc, etc) which is why we wanted the letter, which we got.

They'll merge the groups. No worries. But we have a long ways to go before we get there, so might as well sit back, relax, and enjoy the ride, however bumpy it may get along the way.

 

[iluvflying]

No, you got me....sorry. I was just pointing out - that the Midway guys felt good, when they saw that letter, too. Of course, Guadalupe Holdings has to honor your contract.

Guadalupe Holdings will abide by your contract since you will be working for them.

Over at Southwest Airlines the SWAPA contract is in force, and will be. Its Twenty-four months... not the 18 you all spout off about . 24 months which may be extended by mutual agreement between SWA and SWAPA. :0 Since you guys can't really see any really raises....out of this deal, whats the big deal?

imp:

Since you are obiviously the guy that Gary Kelly comes to for business advice and decision making you know what is going to happen during the transaction. So WHY DO YOU CARE what the Air Tran guys are thinking or believing? Oh wait let me answer for you. BECAUSE you have no clue just like most of all the other pilots at Southwest and AirTran. Maybe you should admit that to yourself and we will all be better off.

 

[boeing717]

The Guadalupe issue is a zebra, no one here is worried about it. Southwest is purchasing AirTran and MV's letter SPECIFICALLY STATES Southwest is a "successor" as defined in Section 1 and will adhere to our CBA. Here's the specifics:



Our guys on our forum have been talking and have NO issue with 24 months at all (general line pilots), we just want to make sure that integration DOES happen (it's NOT extendable unless we allow it too) and that the rest of our Section 1 gets adhered to (not splitting us up and selling us piecemeal, taking aircraft, furloughs and displacements, etc, etc) which is why we wanted the letter, which we got.

They'll merge the groups. No worries. But we have a long ways to go before we get there, so might as well sit back, relax, and enjoy the ride, however bumpy it may get along the way.

I hope what you write makes you feel better, because you are probably the only one that feels better. You tell everybody to keep quiet and you are the first one to open your mouth. Try practicing what you preach.

 

[Ty Webb]

Hey, "boeing717"-

You're not a Pilot, and you obviously don't understand our issues, so why do you feel this overwhelming need to come here and comment on things you don't even understand? There are other forums for non-Pilots . . . . . use them.

The door is closing . . . . please step off of the aircraft. Buh-bye. :laugh:

 

[boeing717]

Hey, "boeing717"-

You're not a Pilot, and you obviously don't understand our issues, so why do you feel this overwhelming need to come here and comment on things you don't even understand? There are other forums for non-Pilots . . . . . use them.

The door is closing . . . . please step off of the aircraft. Buh-bye. :laugh:

OK. I am sorry. I thought this was open to anybody. I should have know better. Who can I talk to and get permission to be here? Can you give me permission?

I do have a private pilot license, would that help me?

Thanks

 

[Roomwithaview]

Ty

You're not a Pilot, and you obviously don't understand our issues, so why do you feel this overwhelming need to come here and comment on things you don't even understand? There are other forums for non-Pilots . . . . . use them.

I guess for the same reason posters like Gen Lee and OYS do it.

:nuts:

 

[Lear70]

I hope what you write makes you feel better, because you are probably the only one that feels better.

Nah, there's a BUNCH of people that took a collective sigh of relief when that letter was signed and the Process Agreement was T.A.'d. If you were an AirTran pilot, you'd understand that, having been privy to our internal message board, the hostility that was brewing after SL8 was signed and it looked like it was deliberately crafted to not only put us at a disadvantage but also violated our CBA in several sections. It was getting ugly on our side of the fence... fear has a tendency to make people hostile.

The MV letter and the Process Agreement resolved a LOT of that tension... but you'd have to be a pilot to understand it.

You tell everybody to keep quiet and you are the first one to open your mouth. Try practicing what you preach.

I'm not telling people to shut up completely, I'm asking people to stop ANTAGONIZING each other by posting things that deliberately provoke the other side. We're all going to continue discussing things, which is a HEALTHY thing (one of the threads had been swimming peacefully for several days of responses which was nice). No harm in that. :beer:

If one of my PEERS would like to tell me that I'm posting things that are hostile and openly provocative, they all have my email address or can PM me here and tell me to Shut It.

 

[roughneck]

Nah, there's a BUNCH of people that took a collective sigh of relief when that letter was signed and the Process Agreement was T.A.'d.

I have yet to see a signed Process Agreement. I wouldn't sigh yet.

 

[Lear70]

I was more worried about the MV letter. The Process Agreement helps, but the letter agreeing that Southwest was a successor as defined in our Section 1 takes care of most of my concerns moving forward.

I also see no reason for SWA management nor AAI management NOT to sign the Process Agreement (and SWAPA and AAI ALPA already did). It doesn't contain anything that would bind either management team to do what they haven't already committed to do anyway...

Then again, I'm a "cup half-full" kind of guy.