ATC Question

Stifler's Mom

MILF...MILF...MILF
Joined
Oct 12, 2003
Posts
5,125
Total Time
4000
I've been meaning to ask this for awhile, so here goes.

Departing CVG for VPS a couple of months ago, we were immediately cleared direct to our destination as soon as we checked on with center just south of CVG.

By the time we reached VPS we must have been handed off to atleast 5 or more controllers.

So how can a controller clear you to a fix over 500 miles away, when other times they don't have the ability to clear you to a fix that might be in another controllers sector?

Thanks, just trying to paint a clearer picture in my mind when I am listening on the radio.
 

aeronautic1

Virgil_Tracy
Joined
Sep 9, 2003
Posts
716
Total Time
3500
The two C's

Stifler's Mom said:
I've been meaning to ask this for awhile, so here goes.

Departing CVG for VPS a couple of months ago, we were immediately cleared direct to our destination as soon as we checked on with center just south of CVG.

By the time we reached VPS we must have been handed off to atleast 5 or more controllers.

So how can a controller clear you to a fix over 500 miles away, when other times they don't have the ability to clear you to a fix that might be in another controllers sector?

Thanks, just trying to paint a clearer picture in my mind when I am listening on the radio.

Coordination and Computers.

It's a wonderful thing. Like coming out of Las Americas and getting cleared at the FIR to DECAL for FLL.
 

ISaidRightTurns

Well-known member
Joined
Apr 24, 2005
Posts
154
Total Time
1500
It has everything to do with LOAs (Letters of Agreement). If The guy on the ground at CVG doesn't have a preffered route for you to fly, and flow control wasn't told him to issue something else, he will clear you as filed (I assume direct in this case). You may be at an altitude that conflicts with the ATL inbound over RMG, and MGM, and the departures out the west gate. So there are a few reroutes we give to go around those. Then you get to the edge of Atlanta center airspace. This is where it happens. You have been going direct in ATL center airspace for hundreds of miles, no one cared. But now, you are talking to someone who is familiar with the LOA between ATL and JAX. If there is a pref routing, you will probably get it. If there is an altitude restriction, you will probably get that too.
 

Stifler's Mom

MILF...MILF...MILF
Joined
Oct 12, 2003
Posts
5,125
Total Time
4000
I see, that brings to mind the JAX/ATL LOA that prevents short-cuts over MCN into ATL during the busy periods coming out of GNV.

Back to the original question, I couldn't figure out how some controllers could clear you halfway across the country, while others seemed to have their hands tied when we would ask for short-cuts.
 

aeronautic1

Virgil_Tracy
Joined
Sep 9, 2003
Posts
716
Total Time
3500
Sorry

I can't spell LOA. I are a pilot.


-------------------------------------------------
Thunderbirds are GO!!
 

Vector4fun

Well-known member
Joined
Jul 25, 2003
Posts
796
Total Time
1700
There can be all sorts of agreements in place between sectors, some written, and some "understood". Depends on time of day, altitudes, traffic levels, Flow programs in place, etc. (Yes, we even get Flow messages that say "NO SHORTCUTS" all caps.) Like the other guy said, one controller may give you direct, but three sectors away, another controller may be required to put you back on a preferred route. Chalk it up to good karma that day.
 

atrdriver

Living in Paradise
Joined
Apr 13, 2004
Posts
9,271
Total Time
5000+
Stifler's Mom said:
I see, that brings to mind the JAX/ATL LOA that prevents short-cuts over MCN into ATL during the busy periods coming out of GNV.
I don't think that is a LOA, at least for the ATR's, it's just that the Moody MOA's are hot and you have to run the corridor to Dublin, or go at 7,000 feet or below (which I have done to get the shortcut). When they go cold you get the shortcut.
 

ISaidRightTurns

Well-known member
Joined
Apr 24, 2005
Posts
154
Total Time
1500
The MCN DBN area is my area. That is where I work. In this case, it all depends on altitude. If you are FL230 or below, you won't talk to ATL till around VNA. Then, if ATL is landing to the west, you must cross MCN at 10k (tprops). Often you can get cleard mcn.v323.husky.sinca3. Just ask for it. Jets cross 40 out at 12 @ 250, but there is all sorts a sequencing involved. If you come in low, say below a holding pattern, I won't run you in first. That's not good service. I will figure out where you belonged in that holding patter, and run you after that guy. Not everyone does it this way, I just wouldn't think it was fair to everyone else.

If arriving to ATL FL240 and above, you will be on top of the moody and rodan MOAs. Normally, direct DBN and the sinca/canuk or over CSG LGC LGC1. Direct at that point is all a matter of sequencing and traffic. If your number one, and I have no traffic, you'll get cut in and go fast. Otherwise, expect vectors and speed to find your place.
 

Stifler's Mom

MILF...MILF...MILF
Joined
Oct 12, 2003
Posts
5,125
Total Time
4000
It may be one of those unwritten agreements out of GNV. We were once told by a JAX controller that ATL didn't want MCN short-cuts due to flow into ATL. So, off to DBN we went for the scenic route.
 

ISaidRightTurns

Well-known member
Joined
Apr 24, 2005
Posts
154
Total Time
1500
No, its written. You don't want to be anywhere south of ATL northbound when a departure push comes out of ATL.
 
Top