ATC light gun signals

[safepilot24]

Has anyone found a sensible way to teach students ATC light gun signals? I think it is extremely difficult to memorize these signals because students never use them. To me it is a simple task of testing someone's rote level of learning. Even as a CFI I forget them from time to time since we (I) hardly ever use them (am attributing that to DISUSE right?!). If there were some good explanations, or really good memory aids that would alleviate some of the problems I think.

I am looking for some reasonable explanations to such questions as why flashing white for return to starting point? So far I have been able to use the method of known to unknown by relating green and red to street traffic lights, but have not had much luck doing the same for other colors and their signals.

Would really appreciate some help from the senior guys.. Thanks!!

B

 

[flyboy]

I teach them the light gun signals for memory and then we type them out and place them on their knee board. That way they always have them for reference. This is the only way I've been able to insure that they can comply when faced with lost coms. The only reason I can remember them is because of the constant doses of it for private, commercial and CFI. I still have to think about it from time to time.

 

[flywithastick]

I have a hard time remembering them myself. can usually piece them together though if I go down the list and think about it. i tell my students to memorize them for the test and checkride, then buy a kneeboard with them printed on it.

 

[ceo_of_the_sofa]

yea, those are kind of tough, and pretty much the street light method is what worked for me. I guess, if I were you, I'd concentrate more on Ground-To-Air signals (since those are most likely to be used, and asked about by DEs)...unless you like to fly with defective comms or no comms at all

 

[safepilot24]

Thanks for the input guys. I have come to a few conclusions: Realistically, when you go NORDO, if you squawk 7600 right away, or at least give ATC ample time to pick you up on radar (assuming they have radar) they are going to clear everyone out of the way and give you the green because you ARE the problem child. Now of course you always have to be prepared to receive something else, but for the most part this is how a controlled tower at a typical Class D training environment will react to this situation.

The other thing is you could treat NORDO as an emergency. Since I allow my students to use a checklist for emergencies, why not allow them to use a cheat sheet with the colors and their meanings.

Does this sound reasonable to everyone?

Thanks again guys.

 

[flywithastick]

The other thing is you could treat NORDO as an emergency. Since I allow my students to use a checklist for emergencies, why not allow them to use a cheat sheet with the colors and their meanings.

Does this sound reasonable to everyone?

Not sure I'm following you... treat a loss of comm in VFR, class D or similar as emergency? No way.

If not in A - D airspace, NORDO is only slightly more than an inconvenience. Forget the transponder and darn sure don't declare an emergency, just press on.

 

[kmunnpilot1]

Take your student to a towered airport that's not too busy. Ask the controller to demonstrate them for you. You might get more out of the experience if you go at night.

 

[ceo_of_the_sofa]

Take your student to a towered airport that's not too busy. Ask the controller to demonstrate them for you. You might get more out of the experience if you go at night.

I ought to try that...so far, never had to rely on light signals...just had to work with a sh!tty speaker and a hand-held mike in a 172 when my headset crapped out

 

[safepilot24]

Let me clarify. I do not, nor would I ever teach that NORDO in VFR (A-D) is an emergency per say, but I was trying to draw a parallel between what types of things students should have memorized at the rote level of learning.

I was making the point that we (CFI's) allow students to reference a checklist for in-flight emergencies such as engine failures, why not allow them to carry a light gun signal sheet with them.

That's all I was trying to say.

Thanks again.

 

[bobbysamd]

Light gun demonstration

I agree with all of the above; there's no really good memory aid that I've encountered for teaching the light gun signals. Light gun signals really should be memory items, especially for students working out of controlled fields. Of course, the biggie is steady green in flight.

The local and ground controllers I've known are always pleased to give a light gun demonstration. Ask for one sometime. While on that subject, it's always a good idea to take your students up to the tower to meet the friendly folks in the cab. Good for you, too, for the time(s) you'll go upstairs to supervise your students during their first solos.

 

[Illini Pilot]

i've never been able to remember them...even being on the SCAN team for my schools flying team. however, i went on a x-c a while ago and asked the tower to shoot some lightgun signals my way and actually receiving them, etc, really has helped me memorize the "flow" of light gun signals you receive on ground/in air

 

[TDTURBO]

I understand that you have to teach NORDO procedures to your students, but a handheld will free up at least 20% of your organic hard drive for other important stuff. I personally don't waste any time memorizing lost comm procedures IFR or VFR, an ICOM and spare batteries cures that, am I wrong?

 

[JCJ]

NORDO

I carry an ICOM handheld with me when I fly - mostly because I am a radio hobbyist and i like to play with it. Be aware that if you are using a handheld radio in an aircraft (or anywhere else for that matter) with the "rubber duck' antenna it comes with your range will be severely limited. If you consistently fly the same airplane, there is a cheap device that can be installed that will allow you to plug your handheld into your external antenna - making it a zillion times more effective if you have to use it in the event of a radio failure

I take issue somewhat with the "NORDO is not an emergency" approach. I am based at LIT. Radio failure in the LIT Class "C" especially during the slow part of the day is certainly not an emergency. IMHO, radio failure in the MEM Class "B" in the midst of a Fedex arrival push is very much an emergency - perhaps not as severe of an emergency as an engine failure or being on fire, but still an emergency

 

[supsup]

light guns

When I teach light gun signals i have my students start by memorizing them. Then I relate different phases of flight with different gun signals. Like, what light signal should you see before landing? or What light gun signals could you expect while entering the pattern? It gives the student a chance to apply what they have memorized. It seems to work pretty good.

supsup

 

[safepilot24]

understand that you have to teach NORDO procedures to your students, but a handheld will free up at least 20% of your organic hard drive for other important stuff. I personally don't waste any time memorizing lost comm procedures IFR or VFR, an ICOM and spare batteries cures that, am I wrong?


Until the day you forget your handheld....I do not think any DE in the country would side with you on that one.

 

[TDTURBO]

Until the day you forget your handheld....I do not think any DE in the country would side with you on that one.

True but unlikely since I leave it in the plane along with a Garmin 295, spare battery pack and 30+ fresh AA batteries.

You can never be too careful.