ATC help

[apcooper]

Yesterday my CFII and I filed an IFR FLt Pln from HFD to BDL (13nm north, class C arpt) and back to HFD eventhough it was clear and a million. We then were cleared via Direct BDL VOR direct HFD. We did the ILS 24 into BDL and as usuall were told to contact the tower 120.3 near the FAF. We let BDL twr know that we'd like to do a T&G and then do the VOR app into HFD. I kept flying down the ILS to minimums then took off the hood and ATC then said "I'm unable to give you the published missed app." I then asked if we were cleared T&G and they said "affirmitive cleared T&G" a moment later I asked for missed app instruction and they pointed us towards the VOR/initial fix for the full VOR app into HFD.

I believe ATC dropped the ball on short final by not giving us missed app instructions and at the same time saying "I'm unable to give you the published missed" I was wondering what I should have done if the freq had been too busy to break in without a T&G clearance as well as ATC telling me not to fly the pub. missed? It seems like the right thing would have been to do a low approach and climb out on rwy heading until I could get in on the radio for a while and if I couldn't then just fly to the HFD VOR at 3000ft (our last assigned altitude) and if I still couldn't talk just go lost comm.

Is my reasoning on this correct? I felt a bit uncomfortable since ATC seemed to be giving confusing instructions and no missed instuctions.

Thanks for the replies.


Andrew

 

[Snoopy58]

apcooper,

What are your procedures when you lose comm during IFR flight in VMC?

Would the optimal thing be for tower to have said "I can't give you the published missed, after the T&G you're cleared to..." ? Sure... if he knew for sure at that moment what you'd like as your clearance following the T&G. Perhaps he had enough on his mind (other traffic, coordinating with approach control on a landline, dealing with somebody else's clearance strip, shift change, who knows what) at that moment that he gave that to you in two transmissions instead of one. Not perfectly optimal, but no big deal -- believe it or not, tower controllers are sometimes in training as well.

Keep track of what your clearances are & aren't. If you've been cleared to land (or T&G or whatever), you're still cleared to land until he tells you that you aren't. If you aren't sure, query the controller (sounds like you did). If you get a disconnect in the clearance, query the controller or ask for what you'd like. But even when you're under the hood, remember that to the rest of the world, you're still flying in VMC conditions instead of the "approach at perpetual minimums" of the training world, and ATC's rules and priorities on the clear VFR day are NOT the same as when the real weather is right at minimums.

Watch enough stuff happen at airports, you'll start to see that nobody's perfect out there... controllers make mistakes, pilots make mistakes, I make 'em, you'll make 'em, and it's nothing to get overly wound up about. Sort things out, continue with what you're doing, and don't lose sleep over what somebody else might could have said better. Work on learning from what mistakes (yours and others) that you'd like to avoid in the future, but don't worry about not having the perfect flight.

And, in the big picture, not having a climbout clearance until you're a few hundred feet up on climbout isn't that big a deal on a clear day.

 

[minitour]

And, in the big picture, not having a climbout clearance until you're a few hundred feet up on climbout isn't that big a deal on a clear day.

Agree...same scenario happened to us the other day...I just flew runway heading on the climbout, kept asking for instructions, all I got was "not cleared for the published missed...." Fine...they handed me off to departure and I just told departure "cessna 12345 runway heading 1,900 looking for instructions"

Sure enough they got the radar contact then gave me a vector and a clearance...no biggie...sometimes Local can get quite busy as was said with someone's strip or a taxi clearance or maybe someone went missed on a parallel runway so now they've got a 737 and you...Chock it up to "everyone's human" or "S.H." Sounds like you did fine...

-mini

 

[wildbill]

Maybe I missed something here,but once your wheels hit the ground your clearance is canceled and when that happens how can you get a missed approach clearance. You have safely touched the ground.You can however request an option on the approach and continue for a missed approach. Again during heavy traffic load and under severe vfr options may not be possible.

 

[KiloBase]

I am assuming Approach Control didn't give you M/A instructions prior to handing you over to tower. I personally wouldn't have QSY'd with out knowing what my missed was.

The only time I have ever had tower give instructions for a missed or anything past the threshold is when I was going VFR for local work.

 

[Vector4fun]

Andrew,

I started to reply to your query the other day, but just flat ran out of time, sorry. First, let's establish a few things.

1. You were on a training flight. As a controller, I will always assume a Cessna asking for an ILS approach when the WX is "clear and a million" is for training or currency. And as such, I'm not supposed to allow you to delay itinerant traffic to any great extent.

2. You had a missed approach. If you're IFR, and no alternate instructions were given, then you were automatically authorized to fly the published miss. What happened was the tower controller *changed* your missed approach instructions. Probably because the published miss is straight ahead to 3000' for 10 miles and hold. Since Ry 24 is the main runway, I *assume* the tower had departures to go after your T&G, and needed to turn you so they could get them rolling without delay. No way the approach controller would know that in advance.

3. Published missed approaches seldom, if ever, are designed to expedite traffic. In fact, they are often competely at odds with that goal. That's why we almost always vector.

4. Lost comms had nothing to do with the situation, since as you said, the WX was clear and VMC. First rule of lost coms, every student forgets: If you encounter VMC, stay thay way and land as soon as practical. If you indeed had gone lost com, you should have looked for a green light from the tower and landed full stop. That's what the book says, and the controller would likely expect.

5. In a terminal radar environment, that is, an airport served by a radar approach control, especially a where there's any traffic to speak of, you will generally find it *RARE* to be allowed to fly a published missed approach. What you will normally get is Radar vectors at some point. Where I work, I've seen the published miss flown only TWICE in four years at the main airport. Both times because the pilot specifically requested in advance, for training, and both times because traffic was very light. Otherwise, we always vector. Even in IFR weather. You might just as well get used to it. The published miss is there as a "fail-safe" procedure should everything go to hell. We vector to move traffic.

Having said that, when you fly into smaller airports, especially those without a tower or approach control service, then you WILL probably fly the published miss. Most likely because no one can see you on radar when you miss, and because Center controllers generally don't vector below the MEA or MSA. Approach Controllers and Towers can often vector you as soon as you've cleared the trees/wires at the departure end...

6. Remember that if you're NOT on an IFR flight plan, that you are NOT authorised to fly the published miss after a practice approach, unless you ask the controller and get clearance to do so. A practice approach under VFR ends at the MAP, and you should simply maintain VFR and negotiate your next request with the controller. He/She may assign a heading and/or altitude, or may not.


Hope this helps.

Yesterday my CFII and I filed an IFR FLt Pln from HFD to BDL (13nm north, class C arpt) and back to HFD eventhough it was clear and a million. We then were cleared via Direct BDL VOR direct HFD. We did the ILS 24 into BDL and as usuall were told to contact the tower 120.3 near the FAF. We let BDL twr know that we'd like to do a T&G and then do the VOR app into HFD. I kept flying down the ILS to minimums then took off the hood and ATC then said "I'm unable to give you the published missed app." I then asked if we were cleared T&G and they said "affirmitive cleared T&G" a moment later I asked for missed app instruction and they pointed us towards the VOR/initial fix for the full VOR app into HFD.

I believe ATC dropped the ball on short final by not giving us missed app instructions and at the same time saying "I'm unable to give you the published missed" I was wondering what I should have done if the freq had been too busy to break in without a T&G clearance as well as ATC telling me not to fly the pub. missed? It seems like the right thing would have been to do a low approach and climb out on rwy heading until I could get in on the radio for a while and if I couldn't then just fly to the HFD VOR at 3000ft (our last assigned altitude) and if I still couldn't talk just go lost comm.

Is my reasoning on this correct? I felt a bit uncomfortable since ATC seemed to be giving confusing instructions and no missed instuctions.

Thanks for the replies.


Andrew

 

[Lrjtcaptain]

I agree with VECTOR,
#1 VMC conditions on an ILS. Id run you as close as i could without delaying other itinerant aircraft that are in the normal traffic flow. I say that because in my situation our common use runway is 14 and the ILS is to 32 so Ill send you missed out the OM.

#2 Published missed is for two main purposes. Lost comm and Loss of RADAR. If the radar is working then expect vectors back to the approach. Alot of M/A tell you to climb to a certain altitude and then turn and go to a fix and hold and blah blah blah. Id rather ship you right back to departure have them give you a turn and vector you back, not fly and hold and then intercept the approach. Radar Vectors are gonna save you time and us the hassle of you conflicting with other aircraft at the time.

#3 Be careful when you do a touch and go. In most cases when you touch the ground, you have gone from IFR to VFR. Another thing when your out practicing...and im not saying you as an example, im talking about the instrument training at large.....when you are vfr and get a vector for the ILS, you are not suddenly IFR.....you need to look out the window still. I get this everyday. Someone calls at the marker saying there on the ILS....well sir, maintain VFr, no seperation services are provided.....what? what do you mean, im cleared for the approach...no your not, your VFR and I don't have an inbound strip on you. your not cleared....little tangent but it bugs me.