ATC aptitude?

[wrxpilot]

Just wondering what it takes to be an air traffic controller... It seems like it could be a pretty good job, but I'm not sure what sort of skills/natural abilities you need. Do you need a photographic memory? Why do people washout of ATC programs? Is being a pilot a huge advantage or just a minor benefit? Is there any sort of ATC aptitude test available?

Hopefully some of you controllers out there (Vector4Fun?) can point me in the right direction. Thanks!

 

[flatspin7]

First of all most of the controllers I know (I do know quite a few) all have at least a privates... but that is becuase UND's ATC program required it... I have met an hear from a number of controllers that are not pilots at all.

That being Said.. there are only 2 ways to be an Air Traffic Controller the first is to be a controller in the Military and the second way is to go to college spefically in an ATC program... There are not a lot of schools that do this, the ones I know are UND, ERAU, Daniel Webster, Beaver Community College (not kidding).. I think Texas Southern and Averett University in Virginia have programs but I really dont know any specifics.


As for what it really takes... basically to get hired you need a fairly decent GPA and you also have to pass a Aptitude test... it used to be called the OPM but I think its been changed in the past few years.

Thats really all I know .... If you want more info try to get in touch with Gary Bartelson at UND... He is the head of the program there and an overall good guy. Hope this helps.

 

[wrxpilot]

As for what it really takes... basically to get hired you need a fairly decent GPA and you also have to pass a Aptitude test... it used to be called the OPM but I think its been changed in the past few years.

Thats really all I know .... If you want more info try to get in touch with Gary Bartelson at UND... He is the head of the program there and an overall good guy. Hope this helps.

That's about the same as I've heard too. It's not something I've really considered until recently, but I figure why not consider all the options. Seems pretty crazy for people to take an aptitude test AFTER they've already signed up for an ATC program (or even graduated).

I will have my inst rating this spring and already have a 4 yr engineering degree w/ a 3.5 gpa. Not sure if that'd make a difference or not though...

 

[check6]

After those tests, once you are selected you have to get at least a 2nd class Medical, background check, and Psychological Evaluation.

 

[timeoff]

Just wondering what it takes to be an air traffic controller

The ability to handle funky schedules, stress, azzhole sups, politics, govt women/minority preference just because, crybaby pilots complaining to the chief, forced OT and......well those are just a couple of nuggets I got from my father over the years.

Great money, we just never saw our father growing up. Holidays, nights, whatever. He was always working.

 

[gkrangers]

The ability to handle funky schedules, stress, azzhole sups, politics, govt women/minority preference just because, crybaby pilots complaining to the chief, forced OT and......well those are just a couple of nuggets I got from my father over the years.

Great money, we just never saw our father growing up. Holidays, nights, whatever. He was always working.

So like a pilot, except better money and benefits.

 

[Say Again Over]

Great money, we just never saw our father growing up. Holidays, nights, whatever. He was always working.

Ya that's because they make double or triple pay on the holidays, lol.

 

[jeroom]

There are 14 schools that propose the ATC course, it's a 2 years program (AS I think). you have to be below 30 when hired and a US citizen, clean record, no DUI and stuff like that. Go check the ATC association website, you'll find all the infos you're looking for.
http://www.natca.com

 

[MarineGrunt]

List of approved schools:

http://www.faa.gov/jobs/employment_information/special_hiring_programs/air_traffic_cti/approved_atcti_schools/

If I could find one where about 90% can be completed by distance learning, I'd do it, but I highly doubt there is.

 

[smellthejeta]

Why do people washout of ATC programs?

The programs are a joke, it's the OKC academy you should worry about.

Is being a pilot a huge advantage or just a minor benefit? Is there any sort of ATC aptitude test available?

I think that a pilot background is more beneficial during training at OKC than anything else. On the job, it depends on your experience and your job assignment more than anything. For instance, I fly C172's in and out of smaller airports. If I get assigned to a Center (like I did) I'm going to have very little familiarity with high altitude stuff like jets and how jets deal with weather. If I get stuck at a large tracon/tower, I'm going to have to deal with 121 rules (which are completely different than GA stuff). If I get stuck in a small class D tower, I'm going to know everything there is to know about how GA pilots think and operate in my airspace.

Aptitude test? Now a computer based simulation (among other things) known as the AT-SAT. There is no demo version available AFAIK.

 

[smellthejeta]

That being Said.. there are only 2 ways to be an Air Traffic Controller the first is to be a controller in the Military and the second way is to go to college spefically in an ATC program...

Wrong answer. There is a third, but it's really spotty -- over the last few months, several ARTCC"s have held "job fairs" where they have hired people directly from the street without doing the college thing.

As for what it really takes... basically to get hired you need a fairly decent GPA and you also have to pass a Aptitude test... it used to be called the OPM but I think its been changed in the past few years.

The term "OPM" is slang... OPM stands for the Office of Personnel Management, which is the bureaucratic office in Washington, DC that handles personnel matters. Somewhere along the way, title of the test just got abbreviated to "OPM." In July '05, they began administering a computer based aptitude test called the AT-SAT. That has a few interactive simulations as well as some other static aptitude tests.

 

[smellthejeta]

After those tests, once you are selected you have to get at least a 2nd class Medical, background check, and Psychological Evaluation.

Technically speaking, you get an ATCS medical, not a second class medical. The difference is that it IS a different test processed through different people administered by specific AME's. Not all AME's can do an ATCS medical. Not all waivers/SODAs for flying are acceptable for ATC.

 

[smellthejeta]

That's about the same as I've heard too. It's not something I've really considered until recently, but I figure why not consider all the options. Seems pretty crazy for people to take an aptitude test AFTER they've already signed up for an ATC program (or even graduated).

I will have my inst rating this spring and already have a 4 yr engineering degree w/ a 3.5 gpa. Not sure if that'd make a difference or not though...

If you go the college route, you absolutely must attend one of the 14 schools and get a degree within the guidelines of their ATC program. Prior college is only useful in waiving coursework towards your new degree.

 

[smellthejeta]

There are 14 schools that propose the ATC course, it's a 2 years program (AS I think). you have to be below 30 when hired and a US citizen, clean record, no DUI and stuff like that. Go check the ATC association website, you'll find all the infos you're looking for.
http://www.natca.com

Of the 14 schools, four of them are community colleges and offer a 2 year AS program. The rest are four year schools, and AFAIK, only 1 of them has a 2 year option. The rest require you to complete a four year degree.

 

[MarineGrunt]

Smellthejeta - Can you post or PM me information about these career fairs? I would love to go the ATC route, but unfortunately I do not have the time/money to go back to school.

Thanks!

 

[PC800]

...information about these career fairs?

A Google search found a lot of info on ATC hiring (including the job fairs) on this site:

http://www.obapseast.com/faa.htm


FWIW, I switched from a pilot career to a controller career in 1974-- and it turned out to be the best move I ever made.

 

[MarineGrunt]

Thanks! I'd appreciate any other help or advice your ATC guys can offer!

 

[MarineGrunt]

A Google search found a lot of info on ATC hiring (including the job fairs) on this site:

http://www.obapseast.com/faa.htm


FWIW, I switched from a pilot career to a controller career in 1974-- and it turned out to be the best move I ever made.

Very educating link, however all of the career fair dates have passed.

 

[smellthejeta]

I sent Marine Grunt a PM telling him the fairs are poorly organized. I think my point is proven when 1) M.G. missed all the job fairs and didn't even know it, 2) The Organization of Black Airline Pilots is the link on the web with the most information, and 3) Even with the dates published in the .doc, there's still no way to know where to go to take the test. In LA, they goofed and never publicized it.

 

[wrxpilot]

I sent Marine Grunt a PM telling him the fairs are poorly organized. I think my point is proven when 1) M.G. missed all the job fairs and didn't even know it, 2) The Organization of Black Airline Pilots is the link on the web with the most information, and 3) Even with the dates published in the .doc, there's still no way to know where to go to take the test. In LA, they goofed and never publicized it.

The ATC thing seems pretty whacky to me, particularly since I'm already 28. I think I'll continue the engineering thing while pushing the pilot thing on the side. If things work out for flying, great. Otherwise I've got my backup. Thanks for all the useful info everyone!

 

[smellthejeta]

The ATC thing seems pretty whacky to me, particularly since I'm already 28. I think I'll continue the engineering thing while pushing the pilot thing on the side. If things work out for flying, great. Otherwise I've got my backup. Thanks for all the useful info everyone!

It is actually whacky. I think my ATC alma mater would make a killing by advertising that they can get you out in one semester if you have a BS and flight time. But, they don't want to do that, and instead act like they're a full two year program.

I won't argue with your reasoning -- I was a couple of years younger than you when I started, and frankly, you pretty much have to give up a lot to MAYBE get a job doing this stuff. It's like flying -- you have to want it bad enough, and you have to sacrifice a lot to do it. How would you guys feel about giving up up to two years of your life to MAYBE get ONE job with ONE company? It's like paying $8k for a type to go to WN and then you never go to WN. FWIW, I was trying to get a flying spot in the USAF, and had I medically qualified, I never would have pursued the ATC gig for the reasons listed above.

 

[Lrjtcaptain]

The ATC hiring process sucks as of now but in a few years it should pick up significantly. I was hired on in 03 and was the second to last class to hit up the MMAC in OKC before they shut the door for 2 years. Now days pretty much all new hires are going enroute and from what ive heaerd from friends there now, people are washing left and right, in and out of the academy. Although it does somewhat take a certain personality to do the job, anyone can do it, if you have the patience. The OPM test has been eleminated to my knowledge. They have the ATSAT now. Basically, goto a CTI school, get the degree, take the ATSAT and then wait. I waited 2 1/2 years until I heard anything and it was another year until i was in Oklahoma city. Any questions PM me, ill tell you anything you need to know. Goto NATCA's website, they have good info on there.

MK

 

[RUNNINHORN]

Of the 14 schools, four of them are community colleges and offer a 2 year AS program. The rest are four year schools, and AFAIK, only 1 of them has a 2 year option. The rest require you to complete a four year degree.

which is the one that offers the 2 year program? Im 28, just turned 28, would I be too old to still attend the 2 year and try and get hired?

 

[RUNNINHORN]

I just read where MCTC's program in minnesota is a 3 semester program. That is doable since I just have 2 more years of eligibility.

 

[smellthejeta]

which is the one that offers the 2 year program? Im 28, just turned 28, would I be too old to still attend the 2 year and try and get hired?

I think the one "four year" school that offers a two-year option is the "College of Aeronautics" on LGA airport. The name has changed, however.

The community colleges are:

Minneapolis Tech
Beaver County -- North of PIT
Miami Dade
Mt. San Antonio College (near ONT)

You have to do your homework, because even though these programs are billed as a 2 year program, it is possible to get out really fast if you have a 4 year degree and/or flight time.

 

[RUNNINHORN]

thanks man.

I have a 4 year degree, or finishing it up right now, currently 118 hours.

Are all of those you posted the one's that offer the 2 year option? (just clarifying)

Also, i turn 28 next week, is there still hope for me in this field or am I too close to 31?

 

[smellthejeta]

thanks man.

I have a 4 year degree, or finishing it up right now, currently 118 hours.

Are all of those you posted the one's that offer the 2 year option? (just clarifying)

Also, i turn 28 next week, is there still hope for me in this field or am I too close to 31?

Yeah, they're all two year programs. I don't know about the four year schools at all, because when I looked at programs I had my BS and 300 hours of flight time. I was looking for THE FASTEST way to get my ATC stuff. I still have 300 hours of flight time

You're still young enough. Truth be told, I graduated in May '05, so I'm not sure how quickly students are being accepted to the ATC schools. Beaver runs a waiting list, but that has changed since I looked at their program, so YMMV. Miami Dade's program is a little obtuse -- they structure the ATC classes as electives around an AS-Aviation Management program or something like that. It's hard to get out of a significant number of courses. Minneapoplis Tech's program I know nothing about. They started it after I started mine. Actually, it's a reincarnation of a very different type of program that no longer exists.

I went to Mt. SAC. At the time, they credited me ALL of my gen ed credits for having a BS, and I either waived or did credit by exam for about 12 additional credits. My net "time in school" was 18.5 credits +/-. I did it in two semesters.

There's a guy I met around these boards who worked for Comair, although he is no longer an active pilot. At the time, he bid a reserve schedule to work weekends in CVG, and then commuted out to ONT/LAX for class. He graduated in ONE semester.

Like I said, I know zip about the program in MSP. So, do your homework and check it out, but I'm fairly certain that Mt.SAC still has the quickest program for people in your shoes. The program itself sucks, but it's quick.

 

[RUNNINHORN]

thanks.

Mt. Sac is actually one of the few that my wife and I could make work since I have a house in Los Angeles.

How much did Mt. Sac cost? Did you do it in 2 semesters going full time? Meaning, 15+ hours a semester? Were these day classes or night classes?

How hard was it getting in to Mt. Sac?

Have you heard from the FAA yet? Did they help you get in with the FAA?

Thanks for the help.

 

[smellthejeta]

thanks.

Mt. Sac is actually one of the few that my wife and I could make work since I have a house in Los Angeles.

How much did Mt. Sac cost? Did you do it in 2 semesters going full time? Meaning, 15+ hours a semester? Were these day classes or night classes?

How hard was it getting in to Mt. Sac?

Have you heard from the FAA yet? Did they help you get in with the FAA?

Thanks for the help.

Mt. SAC is dirt cheap. Put your CA mailing address on your paperwork, and you pay in state tuition. It's about $30/cr hr when I was there. I was out of state, so I paid $170/cr hour. It was the cheapest of any of the schools.

I did one semester part time, and one semester full time (6/12.5). They are mostly day classes, with a few night classes. I think they rotate the night classes.

Mt. SAC is easy to get into -- they don't screen their applicants. If you can fill out the app and pay your tuition, you're in. It's another reason I went there. The downside is that the classes are limited enrollment, and the admit-everybody process can put a squeeze on your ability to get into the classes you want. They added a faculty member so they could offer more sections. With the cut in ATC pay, I think you'll have an easier time getting into the specific classes, but I think you better check with somebody who's been there more recently than I -- I got done in May '05.

The FAA hiring process is a whole 'nuther can of worms. Mt. SAC didn't do squat, but they don't have to either. It's one aspect of aviation where there are more jobs than there are applicants/CTI graduates. When you graduate, your name goes into a database and the FAA calls you from there. You get preferences sheets about what region/state you want to go to. The selection process that I used is different than what it is now, so I can't help you with that.

Yes, I've heard from the FAA. I made a few phone calls, and picked a place where I "knew" I could get hired very quickly. I heard from the FAA in October '05, which was really really quickly considering a number of things. First, at the time, there was a HUGE backlog of graduates that were getting facility placements and class dates. Second, I didn't take the aptitude test (AT-SAT) until July '05. Third, since I didn't know where I wanted to go right away, I sat on some paperwork and turned it in Sept '05. So they called me a month after my final paperwork was in.

My friend who graduated with me has a Sept 22 OKC class date, for an assignment at ORD Tracon. Lucky him. My assignment is at Houston Center (at least that's where it was the last time I checked). I won't be going to training for awhile -- I have a hangup in my medical that is going to sideline me for about a year. Given the current state of affairs, I haven't quite made up my mind whether or not I'm going to accept the position. However, medically, I've gone too far just to walk away, and if I did, I couldn't even get a second class medical right now. So, I'm doing what I have to medically (indpendent of the FAA) and am going to figure out the rest when the time comes.

 

[RUNNINHORN]

wow, thanks for that info.

How indepth was the background check with the FAA? Reason I ask is when i was a freshman in college was stupid and worked at like 6 different jobs, and just quit a few, didnt know if that would hurt me.

How much was the ATC pay cut?

If you dont mind, what salary range did they offer to start you at?