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ATA Water Muddying Techniques Alive and Well...


Well-known member
Dec 5, 2001
Total Time
Ha ha, yeah right....this will "set safety back by a decade". More like airlines will have to pony up some cash to increase the quality of training. You gotta love the airline/ata lawyers doublespeak and missdirection!

ATA Says FAA Crew Training Proposal Unworkable

Recommends Immediate Creation of ARC to Address Inconsistencies

WASHINGTON, Aug. 11, 2009 – The Air Transport Association of America (ATA), the industry trade organization for the leading U.S. airlines, yesterday filed comments expressing serious and broad concerns about a Federal Aviation Administration (FAA) proposed regulation that would rewrite pilot, flight attendant, flight engineer and dispatcher training requirements. In particular, ATA believes that the proposal could adversely impact current ‘best practice’ training programs – a result neither the FAA nor the industry want to see.​

Instead of proceeding directly to a final rule, ATA recommends that the FAA suspend this rulemaking and immediately convene an Aviation Rulemaking Committee (ARC) to address the many conflicts and inconsistencies identified in the ATA comments.

While the preamble of the notice of proposed rulemaking (NPRM) states laudable goals that ATA fully supports, a careful examination of the details of the proposed regulation reveals numerous unworkable aspects, internal conflicts, conflicts with current advisory material and inaccurate assessments of current industry standard practices.

ATA member airlines take training extremely seriously and believe that any rule changes in this area must yield an improvement over existing regulatory requirements. After spending thousands of hours analyzing the proposed rule, training experts from ATA member airlines unanimously concluded that the proposed rule contains substantial and material inconsistencies that make it logistically impossible to implement.

Furthermore, the proposal seems to abandon the advancements in pilot training programs that have been instrumental in improving airline safety.

“While we appreciate the FAA’s desire to quickly adopt new training rules, we believe that the rule as proposed could set the safety clock back by more than a decade,” said ATA President and CEO James C. May.

For example, the Advanced Qualification Program (AQP) enables operators to customize their crew training programs based on real-world operating environments. ATA believes that the FAA proposal fails to recognize the value in this and other innovative, data-driven approaches.
ATA airline members and their affiliates transport more than 90 percent of all U.S. passenger and cargo traffic. For additional industry information, visit www.airlines.org.
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Well-known member
Dec 21, 2003
Total Time
And the ATA members are SMART. They're together, they're organized, and they'll fight any proposed rule making tooth and nail. They realize that they won't get everything they want, but they aren't stupid enough to allow themselves to be fractured because of that. They want to divert attention and delay until this whole tired, inexperienced pilots "nonsense" is long since forgotten.

Pilots, on the other hand, continue to 'mf ALPA and fracture themselves from the only organization fighting this kind of ATA nonsense....
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Well-known member
Nov 17, 2005
Total Time
Who specifically should be contacted at ALPA to ensure proposed changes as originally published are made?

AQP sucks! CBT's without instruction suck! Sim. sessions covering half the QRH in one lesson doesn't do anything to create a learning environment.

Change needs to be made today for safety not costs!


Pawn, in game of life
Oct 20, 2003
Total Time
AQP sucks!

AQP sucks? You prefer the traditional "bet your career" checkride scenario? I've gone through numerous training events at 3 different airlines and I'll take AQP any day of the week and twice on Sundays.

Rez O. Lewshun

Save the Profession
Jan 19, 2004
Total Time
Case made... respectfully the third and fourth posters (both good guys) are discussing the merits of AQP.....

The company's are corporate machines... they take the revenue that we generate and pay membership fee's to the ATA... they don't argue and debate much... they just throw money at the lobbyist...

lucky... what to do....

Call/email Congress ALPA has Fast Alerts
Resolutions at LEC meetings
Talk to your fellow pilots.