ATA pool

[FlyBoeingJets]

I hate to break it to you guys but the EMB and the 717 are not going to fill the role of the RJ. They will do mainline type flying. After all, it works great for Airtran.

The market has changed and it is harder to fill a 150+ aircraft unless you are in certain markets. The cost savings of a 100-130 seat aircraft are significant and smart people are trying to exploit that fact. Domestic capacity has seen growth equal to 6 ATA's and yields have, once again, come down. We need to fight back.

Southwest made about $2.50 of profit per passenger a quarter or two ago. 2.5 passengers per SWA flight meant the difference between a profit and a loss.

Smaller narrow bodies are the ones making money in the most markets, not the 175+ ones on routes that continue to get more competitive. Don't get me wrong, the 737-800 is still a good way to go, but lets put it only on the routes that will work for it. The others should get different size aircraft (717 or 757). If we do it right, it will work wonders.

We are losing money by not being able to get as high a RASM as SWA. I'm betting our quarterly report will show that...AGAIN. We have to get an advantage to offset the debt burden. We need to shake things up. Will it be pay reductions or aircraft changes? Or both? I vote for the flexibility of more types of aircraft. I want the 717 on the property.

We could also use another hub that doesn't go head to head with SWA. I can appreciate the apprehension of making such a big change at ATA, but unless we change the future looks murky to me. If we don't act soon the opportunity may slip by.

 

[Heavy Set]

I'm thinking that putting 717s into PIT or CLT would be a good move and not directly compete with SWA . My question is whether you guys at ATA can build a 717 fleet fast enough - are there many idle 717s out there that you could access (and train on) right now? Also, are there enough gates at PIT and CLT to support expansion?

 

[MooseTrax]

CP Hotline

The CP hotline was pretty generic this weekend. No real news. Hopefully some news will break soon. Does anyone know when ATA will report 1st qtr stats?

 

[Citrus Jockey]

My question is whether you guys at ATA can build a 717 fleet fast enough - are there many idle 717s out there that you could access (and train on) right now?

No there is not. From reading alot of these posts it sounds as if a lot of people think there are a bunch of 717s sitting idle just waiting to be scooped up by someone. That is not the case because if there were Airtran would have tried to get them. They got all 23 AA/TWA 717s. Like someone said earlier Long Beach can only churn out 1 717 a month, and with AirTran and Midwest still receiving deliveries it will be awhile until one could be delivered to ATA. If Boeing really wanted to shutdown the 717 line they wouldn't be talking to ATA about ordering a bunch of 717s.

 

[its none ya]

Boeing is just trying to recoup some of the money they lost from the Sprit deal that ended up going to Scarebus.

The company says (take it for what is worth) that it will only take 4 months from the time we sign the deal with Boeing and the Union that the first airframe will be on the property. This would lead me to believe that Boeing has some planes somewere...

 

[jettypeguy]

First there are B717 in short term storage out there, can they be bought buy ATA who knows, heres 2 I found with a quick search, more can be found with a more detailed search;

number 1

number 2

second, just because long beach is only producing 1 plane a month dont be fooled into thinking this production line can't be sped up. Also the 757 line is shut down and could easily be retooled to a 717 line, or maybe production can begin in chicago (don't know the status of that plant though). Just remember if theres a will theres a way - if theres a customer theres a plane....

 

[Citrus Jockey]

I don't know about #2, but #1 is in Airtran colors now. Air Tran received all ex TWA 717s last year with the last one coming in January 04'.

 

[ataopsdave]

ATA put in their infoline today that they are looking at a 100 seat ac. They said they are analyzing the EMB-190 and the B717

 

[MooseTrax]

Which infoline? I just listened to the CP infoline and the MEC info line and heard nothing about either aircraft on the messages.

 

[beech1900kid]

MT,

go to the employee website to read about it

 

[jimEJet]

Just my $.01

I used to work for one of those smaller airlines with four fleet types, which of course, does not exist anymore.

I'm not a financial guru by any means, however.

How is diversifying a forty plane fleet going to further reduce costs??

I just don't understand. How do you guys think that is a good idea? Why are all other airlines trying to streamline the aircraft types in their fleet and ATA is trying to expand theirs?

If someone could explain why they believe the way they do, by all means, I'm all ears.

The only way, in my opinion, would be to exchange a fleet type for another within ATA. Like some have suggested, getting rid of the 737's. Because doesn't the 757 and the 737-800 have about the same capacity? If they have the same capacity, then why not get rid of one of those types?

I saw my last carrier shift from fleet type to fleet type with no real game plan in sight??? Sure a good deal on acquisition today makes you a few bucks, however. Long term those diverse fleet types will sink the airline in the long term, especially in an airline where I came from.

You guys at ATA do not get paid by years of service solely; you get paid by weight and years of service, like my previous employer. Just think of the huge seniority shift over the next two years during an aircraft acquisition. Double and triple training crews, double training mechanics, and requalifying all the FA's in emergency ops on the 717.

I don't know guys, I just think it is a bad deal to hope for an additional aircraft type, however. A swap of aircraft types might not be a complete bad thing. But again, long term, for the pilots, that could be a curse in disguise. You'll be locked in to lower pay rates if the fleet shifts to the 717 or EMB.

Just be careful what you ask for!

I saw a great airline fall flat on it's face two years ago because of a management shot gun approach at short term profitability. I just hope it does not happen to such a great hometown airline like ATA.

Good luck guys, you'll need!

jimEJet

 

[jettypeguy]

Company Roadshow update!

I'll let someone else give all the details as I don't have time but here are a few highlights, but boeing wants a decision by may on the 717 and part of the deal is they will train 3 crews/ plane. they also have 6 B717’s in Australia available quickly for use here. The jist of the whole thing is that the 737's (175 pax) and the 757's (200+ pax) are too much for capacity for some current markets and possible markets. The 717 or 100seater fills the void. some of the 757's are dedicated to military flying, so we have about 50 some airplanes in the ATA schedule service (73/75). Basically Airtran has proven the 100 seater very profitable, thus the company wants to take it to the next level by having the 100 seater and it's market plus the long haul 737/757 markets including trans alantic which was said to be coming. Look at it this way, Airtran is growing its long haul market with the 737 orders, ATA wants to grow it's short haul market with 717's, (the 737's have to much capacity to make money on these markets). Now help pay for it the company wants 2 year pay freeze, no one will be under 2nd year pay though, either on property now or to be hired, about $70/hour. Now this is what the company wants, we (the pilots) have to vote/agree on anything so who knows....but all in all things are gonna happen quickly...

 

[ataopsdave]

do you think the pilots will vote for that

 

[jettypeguy]

cant really say right now as company is negotiating with the union so there is no offical proposal to vote on. remember pilots don't give without getting something in return, same as the company..we should know more in terms of a proposal within the next week, til then we are just counting on our negotiators to do their job...time will tell on this one..

 

[Lear70]

Re: Company Roadshow update!

Now help pay for it the company wants 2 year pay freeze, no one will be under 2nd year pay though, either on property now or to be hired, about $70/hour.

Just to clarify, does that mean that new hires would get 2nd year pay to start or that when they hit 2nd year pay they're capped?

Thanks...

 

[jettypeguy]

all new hires would recieve 1st year pay then capped at second til pay freeze over, but 2 things to consider, first the pay freeze would really only affect the people currently on property because it would go into effect before hirinig for the 717(or vacancies caused by it) would start so the pay freeze would end before future newhires 3rd year would start. second IF we get the 717's (between 50-100 is what company said) there would be many junior captains, so they would get captains pay frozen after upgrading and some of them would probably be 2nd year guys...this whole thing would be good for new hires because of quick movement and upgrade, but would be bad for the most senior guys retiring within the next couple of years as they have only been on the new contract pay scale and retirement plan for a short while compared to the low wages they used to make and may not have enough to not-work after retirement...

 

[mt2]

$70 ?????

With the pay rates the Company is proposing for the 717, 2nd year pay is looking like @$40-45/hr.