ATA Interview Sim Prep

[thebluto]

A friend of mine told me that 10 years ago he was able to get sim prep in the 727 Sim at Purdue during the week before his ATA interview. The guy who ran the sim put him through the exact same scenario as the interview.

Can this still be done there at Purdue? How much does it cost now? Any place else to do the prep if not? HPA perhaps?

 

[ForgedBlade]

I belive the guy you want to get ahold of down there is John Young, but hopefully someone will have a number for you. I personally didn't do the prep before my interview, but some guys do. It's real straightforward and low-key, all they want to see is some basic instrument skills! I've heard the prep is about $250, but I'm not 100% sure. Hope some of the other guys can add to this!

 

[Formula1]

ATA Sim Prep

Try this phone number for John Young at Purdue;

765-494-9969. This number should still be good as a couple of my friends have been down there recently for sim prep for ATA interviews.

Good Luck!!

 

[thebluto]

THANKS

Thanks a bunch. I've got a ten-year Captain helping get my app in to the Chief Pilot. Hopefully I'll be using that number soon.

 

[sunburn]

Young can do 2 sim preps per day on the 727 that ATA uses. They are usually done from 530AM to 730AM and he limits himself to just a few days a week as he then has to still work a full day with the rest of the classes. I have an upcoming interview but he has been booked up for the last 3 weeks and will be unable to get me in before my interview. I'll be taking the sim portion cold and I'll let you know if I bomb it. If any of you have any pointers on flying the 727 around the pattern, please let me know.

 

[p3hawk]

ATA interview sim prep

Hey Bluto, when did you you mail your application in?

Mine was recieved on/or about Sept. 17. I have a Capt. friend of mine trying to do the same for me.

 

[ForgedBlade]

Don't worry about taking the sim rid cold, it really is not that big of a deal! They give you the profile and will assist with everything. They want to see that you can hold a heading, climb, turn, track a radial, etc. Basic IFR stuff!

 

[thebluto]

NOT ACTUALLY INTERVIEWING YET

I mailed my app in in March. Updated resume in Apr at LA Air Inc conference. Most of the military folks I've talked to didn't get an interview until pretty close to getting out (2-3 months). I'm out in Jan-Feb timeframe.

The friend of mine, who has been at ATA for ten years, talked to one of the more senior pilots in Indy. I faxed my resume to the Indy pilot, who was going to hand walk it in to Mike Gerdes, the Chief Pilot.

That was yesterday. So, I'm still in wait-and-see mode.

 

[AA717driver]

Well, you know, they really don't like military guys that much, so maybe you should apply elsewhere...

SO I CAN GET IN THE DOOR!



Sorry, I couldn't resist... Anyway, I just had beers with a friend who is in class now and he said there is a good mix of commuter, furloughed TWA, military and a few corporate types in his class.

He's having fun so far. Good luck.TC

 

[thebluto]

AA717drv may not be too far off the mark

As far as military guys, the Indy pilot that took my fax said they don't get too many military apps. A lot of guys are staying in these days, for one thing.

Also, he said most of the military guys who've applied don't have that many hours (the three I know (who didn't get the job) were all around the 2.5-3K hr point).

It seems like ATA is looking for "pilots who've paid their dues" from the gouge I've heard.

I'm not sure if it helps, but I did spend about 1300 hours riding shotgun/backseat in the EA-6B in addition to my 3000+ pilot hours. Not sure if that helps, but it can't hurt.

Good luck to all. I'd be happy to see us all get the job we want.

By the way, I was in Vegas last week and the strip was busy (I take that to mean many PAX in and out of McCarran(and more hiring by those who fly there)).

 

[flyhard]

If you can't get in with John Young, try Dick Vanjoi. That is who I did my sim prep with, good guy.

 

[BunsenHoneydew]

Re: AA717drv may not be too far off the mark

As far as military guys, the Indy pilot that took my fax said they don't get too many military apps. A lot of guys are staying in these days, for one thing.

Also, he said most of the military guys who've applied don't have that many hours (the three I know (who didn't get the job) were all around the 2.5-3K hr point).

As a military guy who was recently hired and currently in training, I have to dispute this. At indoc, they told us that they like a variety of folk from a variety of backgrounds. We have mainly airline folks in our class, but even their backgrounds are extremely varied. We have two military guys in class who just came out of the military (around 3800 hrs and 2900 hrs) and two more that were at "other" airlines before ATA. (One guy actually flew P-3s, so even Navy guys can make it) This has been a great experience so far. I have seen no bias against military people. One of the pilots who interviewed me was former military and there are several people at all levels with prior military experience.

It seems like ATA is looking for "pilots who've paid their dues" from the gouge I've heard.

I feel I have paid my dues as much as the civilians who are in my class. Some of them had harder roads to travel than I have, but some of them haven't. If spending the better part of your youth flying and serving your country isn't paying your dues, then I guess I haven't paid mine.

I'm not sure if it helps, but I did spend about 1300 hours riding shotgun/backseat in the EA-6B in addition to my 3000+ pilot hours. Not sure if that helps, but it can't hurt.

No it can't. I think, once again this is from a new hire with only one month experience, that ATA are looking for individuals who will fit into their company. I don't think that just paying your dues is going to guarantee anything.

Good luck to all. I'd be happy to see us all get the job we want.

Me too man. I did my sim prep with Dick Vanjoi. He is a former military guy and was awesome. I would definitely suggest the sim prep. The chances of getting hired without it in my opinion are slim. The interview sim goes so fast that you never really have any time to warm up and adjust to the sim. If you have current time in the 727, then skip it. If not, do the prep. I don't know of anywhere else to find that sim. If you get interviewed, you can ask to fly in a few days early to do the prep. It is about an hour drive from Indy.

Read aviationinterviews.com and the gouge is right on. I used that site and this site (by the way, thank you to everyone who shared your infomation on this board and aviationinterviews.com) This site was good for the latest up to date information. You MUST know as much as possible about the company going to the interview.

Good Luck. The rumor that is floating around is that ATA is going to hire a ton next year. Heard a bunch of different numbers from different folks, but all of them are positive (....just like the stock this week...yea!)

BH

 

[texanpilot]

sim prep

I would try to get the 727 sim prep somewhere, anywhere before the interview. There are some cheap sims in CA and FL if Purdue is full. To go to the interview cold in the 727 would be not smart. Most of us think we can fly everything well, but in reality - would you base your 5 million dollar career that you can "figure out" the 727 while in the interview?
The sim portion of your interview is absolutly the most important part of the 12hr day. You are being hired to be a pilot, you have 25 minutes to prove you can handle a 757, 737, or L10.

We were just told we are hiring 100 pilots the first quarter of next year.

 

[TriStar_drvr]

It was four and half years ago, but I used the 727 sim at Flight Safety in St. Louis. Don't know if they're still there now though. If you do go, find someone who has some time flying the 727 to help you in the sim. I had a TWA pilot who was a very good instructor. Maybe there are a few retired guys with 72 experience still hanging around St. Louis.

Heck, I used to be a sim instructor and I've got some 72 time. With a hundred more pilots to be hired, maybe I should start giving sim preps.

Good luck.

 

[Formula1]

727 Sim

I used the 727-200 sim in Miami at AeroServices for my ATA interview 2 and a half years ago. My sim instructor was a retired ATA 757 Captain ( can't remember his name, but he was really thorough). Their phone number is 800-752-7467 or
(305) 871-5553

To anyone who has an interview coming up, I definitely reccomend doing a sim prep. The sim is not that difficult to fly but it makes you that much more confident during the interview sim ride if you have done the prep. Go ahead and spend the money and then write it off on your income taxes as a job search expense!! I did.

How much are they charging these days for the sim prep anyways?

 

[otis]

For what its worth...

I tried to get a sim prep before my interview at ATA but they were booked up. All the others in my group did get a prep. I got hired and none of the others did. They asked us all who took a sim prep before we got into the sim. It can be done without the prep. Not trying to form any conclusions here...

otis

 

[Lear70]

When I was first hired at Express One back in '99, I was based in Dallas on reserve and lived 3 miles away from the sim... you can guess who got called to sit support - I have 183 hours in that d*mn sim. From that standpoint, I would recommend ANYONE who hasn't flown a Boeing sim before to get the prep - it doesn't have any control "feel" like a smaller airplane or a newer one with "artificial feel" like the CRJ, just a 20-pound centering cam that feels the same to turn, pull, or push regardless of airspeed and that's takes a bit of getting used to, plus the power reacts slowly and takes a little getting used to as well.

I dug out my old cheat sheet I used to give guys who were having a hard time getting the pitch and power right (note, some of their procedures may differ slightly but the pitch and power settings won't change from sim to sim).

Takeoff:

Rotate to 15 degrees, climb to whatever they tell you cleanup altitude is (3,000 feet was ours), call "Flaps 5, Climb Thrust" and reduce the pitch to 10 deg. Accelerating through 180 kts call "Flaps 2", acc through 190 kts call Flaps up, After Takeoff Checklist. Climb to 10,000' at 250 kts.

Level Flight: 250 KIAS, 2500 PPH Fuel Flow per engine, 4 - 5 deg pitch attitude.

Climb/Descent: Change in fuel flow = rate of climb/descent. If you want to descend 500 fpm, reduce fuel flow from 2500 pph to 2000 pph per engine and so on. Ignore the N1, N2, or EPR gauges for the most part.

This is important: Lead your level-off in climbs and descents by 2,000 feet. Don't be climbing more than 1,000 fpm inside 1,000 feet of your target altitude because she doesn't react quickly to control inputs and unless you've flown big airplanes before, it will take more control input than you think. Also, lead your power changes, especially when leveling off in a descent and adding power - these engines take a few seconds to spool up - I usually add a bit of power 1,000' before leving off in the descent to start them spooling up and lower my rate of descent but again, that's just a technique.

Steep Turns: Remember, in just about any swept-wing jet, the same pitch attitude that holds level flight will also hold your altitude during a steep turn as long as airspeed remains constant (I won't get into why or how that relates to AOA here). Don't do three things at once (pitch, power, bank). Set your power to 3700 pph per engine, THEN roll smoothly into your 45 deg bank while watching your pitch to maintain what you started with, then trim 2 seconds of nose-up trim. (Note: some people tell you not to trim, I like the trim but then again I'm used to it. Try it both ways during your prep and see what you do the best with.)

1. Your ADI is your primary reference instrument. Changing pitch or bank angle will screw you up.

2. Your secondary pitch instrument is your Altimeter. Do NOT watch the VSI for altitude information - on these aircraft it's not a trend instrument, it's an IVSI, that means it will be all over the place as you make minor pitch and bank changes.

3. Your airspeed may require small power adjustments, don't get crazy with the power. Add or subtract 200 pph to fine-tune it.

4. Don't trim for zero elevator input in the turn, it will screw you up in the roll-out, this means you will have to keep some back-pressure throughout the turn... don't hit the gym the night before the sim, 20 pounds for two minutes gets heavy.

15 degrees from your rollout heading, do the same thing you did to enter but in reverse order: give it 2 seconds of nose-down trim, THEN, roll out smoothly, THEN reduce power to 2500 pph. The natural tendency of the sim is to pitch up and climb as you roll out, make sure you watch your ADI and KEEP 5 DEG OF PITCH, this will probably mean you have to PUSH FORWARD as you roll through 10 deg of bank towards level flight.

ILS Approach: (note: if you're vectored at an altitude HIGHER than the lowest published FAF altitude, the distances (DME) from the FAF will change slightly, so just use your head).

Slow to 200 kts as you're being vectored, don't race into it at 250.

Being vectored downwind, Flaps 2, slow to 190.

Approaching the localizer course within 5 miles from the FAF, Flaps 5, slow to 160.

Localizer alive, AND within 3 miles from the FAF, Flaps 15, slow to 150.

Glideslope alive within 1 mile of the FAF, Gear down, Flaps 25, slow to 140.

On Glideslope, Flaps 30, Vref plus factor, Before Landing Checklist. Set power at 3000 pph per engine, descend at approx 700 fpm, target airspeed Normally Vref +5 or 10, target pitch attitude 8-10 deg. Remember, pitch for airspeed, power +/- 200 pph for glideslope.

In the flare, don't make it pretty, just pitch up a little to stop the rate of descent, chop the power, and let it land. If you miss the TDZ, you've blown the ride, so just let it thump on. Unless it has auto-spoilers, you'll have to yank them yourself but I'm sure they'd brief that.

Missed Approach:

Call, "Go Around, Go Around Power, Flaps 15". Pitch up IMMEDIATELY to 15 degrees and add the power towards go-around EPR (one of the only times you'll use EPR, just get it close to that setting, your NFP will fine-tune it 'cause you called for it). When you hear "positive rate", you call "Gear Up". Clean up on the same schedule you were briefed for a normal takeoff. The most important thing here is to pitch up to 15 deg to stop your descent and add the power so you don't get slow.

Holding:

200 kts is pretty much the standard (and the max below 6,000 feet anyway), so just plan on it. If you're not a holding whizkid, MAKE SURE you freshen up on holding entries. It'd be a shame to bust your ride after flying the ride of your life for an improper holding entry. 2000 pph per engine at 7 deg pitch holds 200 kts level very nicely.

In the event you do a non-precision approach, just be fully configured (Gear down flaps 30) 2 miles before the FAF and remember that level flight fully configured is 3700 pph per engine. Descent at 1,000 fpm is 2500 pph per engine.

Notes:

The trim is great, it's noisy, clanky, fun, and will get you into deep kimshee Kemosabe. USE IT SPARINGLY!

Don't get caught up with all the fancy steam gauges. T-scan and power instruments (fuel flow and sometimes EPR) and ignore everything else.

Don't get creative and do exactly what they tell you, even if it's different than your prep. DON'T say, "Well I was told to do it THIS way." Cooperate and graduate, shut up and just do it how they tell you.

Anyone who has taken the sim prep at ATA might be able to share more correct procedural stuff. Maybe "Mustang Man"? You da' man! Need another beer? p.s. I went to the interview but turned Transmeridian down, drop me a line and I'll let you know why.

Active 727 Sims that I know of:

Flight Safety Boeing STL
Flight Safety Boeing DFW
Flight Safety Boeing TEB
Pan Am Academy MIA
Flight Training International (using United's 727 Sim)
Aero Services MIA

Good Luck!

 

[ForgedBlade]

Holy crap! Rich, my head would have exploded if I had to remember all that!!!! Thanks for the info though! I'll drop you a note too.

Seriously guys, if you can fly now, the sim isn't that tough. They did ask us who had sim preps beforehand - in my group, all of us that got hired did not get to the sim for a prep. Not saying we are all Chuck-Yeageresque-pilots, we just flew the thing, held altitude (for the most part!), kept our speed stable, and shot a decent approach. The guys working the sim will really walk you through it and make you feel relaxed.

In my case, everything went great right until about 20' above the "ground" - I felt the sim land, or so I thought, (on the centerline, of course) and then I all of a sudden did a 180 on the runway and rolled backwards a few thousand feet! Lucky they don't count the last 100'! It was a wierd sim thing (I still think that!) and the guys gave me $hit about it, but I got hired. We all laughed about it, so be relaxed and they wil know what you are capable of!

 

[propjob27]

Another word of advice.

They ask during the interview who did the sim prep and who didn't. DONT lie. If you did the sim prep, say so, and if you didn't, say so. They get the list of names from Purdue on who has done it.

I did the sim prep with Vanjoi, and got hired. Out of the 5 of us interviewing, 3 did the prep and 2 didnt. Only two of us got hired that day, and we had both done the prep and admittied it, of course.