ATA Bad News..

[75M]

Good luck guys. I really hope ATA makes it and that the majority of you won't need to start over. Personally I think it is way too early to talk about the demise of ATA. While getting out of Indy they will be concentrating on MDW, which will maximize their codeshare with SWA. I also heard that ATA is increasing frequency significantly on those segments of the code share for which they are responsible (e.g., MDW-MSP, etc.).

ATA's not done. They're just breaking some eggs.

 

[Jim Smyth]

Lots still up in the air there, Jimmy.

$40M for the hanger and 6 gates, $47M for the secured DIP loan(includes the Chicago Guaranty of $7M), $30M security purchase when reorganization plan filed and accepted by the judge, and $47M in exit financing if they exit by 9/05.

Has the hanger closed yet? It was supposed to by 1/12/05. Has the city council given their final approval on the gates? Not to my knowledge. Do you think ATA has tapped the DIP loan yet? I doubt it, and they won't owe anything until they do. Do you think maybe the ATSB might be looking at what is happening? Do you think maybe they have the authority to demand immediate payment of the loan, thus usurping the judges authority. Stay tuned, there is still much to play out.

This is what I had read and was thinking of. Money still talks!











Press Release - Chicago Airport System
For Immediate Release:
December 21, 2004


Contact Information:
Annette Martinez - (773) 686-3700

DEPARTMENT OF AVIATION ON BOARD WITH BANKRUPTCY COURTS DECISION FOR MIDWAY INTERNATIONAL AIRPORT GATES

City Will Sign Partial Assignment To Allow For Gate Transfers

Today the Chicago Department of Aviation announced it will sign a partial assignment for the reallocation of the 14 ATA gates at Midway International Airport. The action is a result of the Federal Bankruptcy Court formal approval of Southwest Airlines bankruptcy deal with ATA.

"The proposals presented by Southwest and Air Tran were both good but in the end, the City agrees with the bankruptcy court decision that the Southwest proposal is the best choice for Midway. This deal will allow Southwest, the financially sound longtime Midway partner, to continue to flourish. The deal also allows our other longtime partner ATA to retain a presence in Chicago," said Aviation Commissioner John A. Roberson.

Under the terms of the partial assignment, Southwest will lease six of the 14 gates and eight gates will remain with ATA. "This arrangement will allow the airlines to begin their transactions and continue uninterrupted service from Midway," said Roberson. "We are working with all the participants to ensure a smooth transition," he said.

The leases on the Midway gates are preferential, which give the City the authority to reclaim the gates if the lessees reduce or cease operations.

The City’s current use agreements with the airlines allow for the Aviation Commissioner to approve the gate reallocation. The hanger and loan agreements will be presented to the City Council Aviation Committee and will require approval of the full City Council.

In addition to the gates, the Southwest agreement also includes assuming responsibility of a plane maintenance hanger lease and a $7 million loan for the ATA expansion gates.

 

[lowecur]

This is what I had read and was thinking of. Money still talks!

Jimmy, are you trying to tell me BS walks.

I had not read that, but I am still curious about this part of that agreement: "The City’s current use agreements with the airlines allow for the Aviation Commissioner to approve the gate reallocation. The hanger and loan agreements will be presented to the City Council Aviation Committee and will require approval of the full City Council"

Why hasn't the City Council Aviation Committee approved the hanger as yet? Reallocation does not mean they have agreed with the purchase of those rights. All it does is give the airlines a temporary solution until such time that the Council wishes to grant approval to the sale or not. By approving this sale, they would be setting a precedent that all the gates are not owned by the city and any airline could sell them. That's a very big loss of control for the city, and they may choose to just stay the middle of the road and leave things as they are for now.

 

[tranceport]

Originally Posted by tranceport
Based on his response and complete lack of knowledge about the bankruptcy process . Then you said: "Care to elaborate"

First off, I don't feel like I have to elaborate on a question I directed toward you.

Since you read press releases like everyone else, apparently this makes you an airline bankruptcy analyst. My point still stands that your unsubstantiated remarks about 'closing airlines down' is not appropriate because it is jobs and real people we are talking about here, not just pawns in a game or characters in a book you are writing.

I have no idea why I'm (ever) gonna reply to you except for to say that you are a very good flame baiter and I fell for it.

For clarification. I stand by original response to you when you stated:

"The ATSB got more money, but now it remains to be seen whether they want to save the taxpayers their investment and close the airline down, or let ATA burn through the cash. "

It's ok. You can keep changing your tune b/c it's a fluid situation and can, and will, change from what it is today or last month.

I feel like such a tard for even replying.
Good luck to you in whatever aviation goals you have, albeit investing.

P.s. It is very interesting how you take the additional time to reply to someone's posts so as a rebuttal to you will not be able to capture your quotes and responses. Very ingenious defensive move. It's all becoming clearer.

 

[lowecur]

First off, I don't feel like I have to elaborate on a question I directed toward you. Okay.

Since you read press releases like everyone else, apparently this makes you an airline bankruptcy analyst. No, just an amateur analcyst. My point still stands that your unsubstantiated remarks about 'closing airlines down' is not appropriate because it is jobs and real people we are talking about here, not just pawns in a game or characters in a book you are writing. It's like the three monkeys...hear, speak, see no evil. I guess not talking about it will somehow make things easier. I feel for the good people at ATA, but pretending that their future is in good hands is not realistic. Who knows, it's possible they could pull this thing out. You would find no one happier for them.

I have no idea why I'm (ever) gonna reply to you except for to say that you are a very good flame baiter and I fell for it. It's not flaming, it's discussion. When you discus, you learn. This is a mantra you should try, as long as it's civil.

For clarification. I stand by original response to you when you stated:

"The ATSB got more money, but now it remains to be seen whether they want to save the taxpayers their investment and close the airline down, or let ATA burn through the cash. " You forgot to post this part: That said, is ATA still viable? Who knows at this point. If Military Charters are making money, will this be enough to offset the continued losses at MDW and the high cost of fuel? Time will tell, but at worst it bought the good folks at ATA some time to look elsewhere.

It's ok. You can keep changing your tune b/c it's a fluid situation and can, and will, change from what it is today or last month.

I feel like such a tard for even replying. Don't, it shows you care. Nothing wrong with that.
Good luck to you in whatever aviation goals you have, albeit investing. Thanks, back at you.

P.s. It is very interesting how you take the additional time to reply to someone's posts so as a rebuttal to you will not be able to capture your quotes and responses. Very ingenious defensive move. It's all becoming clearer.

It's not a conspiracy, it just makes it easier to make my point. Try using the copy/paste with your mouse.

 

[tranceport]

thank you for giving me a reason to use all the features on this website.

Discussion? you give yourself too much credit. I've had better discussions with my 3 year old. THanks.

Why don't I use coply and paste? because using the reply button in a 'discussion' is the reason why it's there. It's all part of the discussion process. Oh right, you have your own way of discussing things. Since you chose not to use it so others cannot reply to you is hardly a reason I think it's a conspiracy. Nice try though.

I'm going to call up my mother in law. You make talking to her a walk in the park. thanks for the preparation.

 

[Jim Smyth]

Ah yes Lowecur made another fan did ya! LOL

I'm not sure what the "will require approval of the full City Council" exactly means but I am sure they will side with who gives them the most money, has a proved track record, and helps save as many jobs as possible. Its unfortuante the ATA and C8 are being shrunk so fast. I didnt see that coming but then again the Airline Management types tend to underinflate there problems when the going gets rough. You usually only find this out when the money runs dry.

In 1991 the company I used to work for (the old Midway Airlines ) went to being aquired by Northwest, to out of business in 2 days time frame. On that Sunday before we actualy went out of business the following Tuesday there was media reports at Midway about something was going wrong with the buy out. On Tuesday evening ( day before pay day) we ceased operations. Northwest claimed that we lied about our numbers ( I find that extremely hard to believe given our very reliable management at the time). They also said Midway had a contaminated fuel farm ( Duh, that was the city of Chicagos not ours). So in a Chapter 11 things tend to be very fluid for a while. SWA is honoring its words and giving ATA furloghes preferential interviewing and I hope they include the C8 guys too! Very valuable Midway experiance!

Originally posted back in Dec regarding the SWA/ATA/AAI deal at MDW:

Looks like ATA is falling apart faster than probably even Gary Kelly had planned. As far as Jim Smyth's predictive abilities are concerned, maybe he should consider NOT staying in a Holiday Inn Express.

If I was able to predict the future I wouldnt be in the Airline Business! Logical assumptions on my part from what the Companies put out and also what I read, plus its still not over yet!

 

[AA717driver]

A few years ago, before the MDW terminal expansion, ATA made noise about moving all training to Chicago (building a training center) along with the HQ. The city of IND had a stroke. Indy had helped finance the hanger and HQ building (and was up to their eyeballs in the UAL mx base AND watching the Postal Hub going south so they were in no mood to wave bye as the Mayflower vans headed North) and given other incentives to ATA, I believe.

Once ATA began a large expansion at MDW they logically should have relocated everything to Chicago.TC

 

[Jim Smyth]

Some of the ATA expansion is still in play, at least some property issues. There is a very large building just North of Midway Airport on Archer Avenue that ATA was going to turn into a very large training facility. The city I believe still wants the money they ponyed up for the property and SWA is in the mix with paying something for that I believe with the monies that are going to the city. You never know whats going to happen though. The ATA hanger that is in question on the North side of the airport I believe SWA wants also. Used to be Midways (1991) and Midway spent a small fortune redoing both of the hangers. City has got a gold mine. They just keep leasing out items over and over again to what ever airline has the money at the time. What a racket!

 

[lowecur]

thank you for giving me a reason to use all the features on this website.

Discussion? you give yourself too much credit. I've had better discussions with my 3 year old. THanks.

Why don't I use coply and paste? because using the reply button in a 'discussion' is the reason why it's there. It's all part of the discussion process. Oh right, you have your own way of discussing things. Since you chose not to use it so others cannot reply to you is hardly a reason I think it's a conspiracy. Nice try though.

I'm going to call up my mother in law. You make talking to her a walk in the park. thanks for the preparation.

Does that mean dinner and drinks are out the window?

 

[Prog 2/2]

Well everything is not always as it seems. Possibly, ATA is in worse shape than what was led on. This happened in the Midway-NWA deal that fell apart.

Yeah, because your company would never, ever do anything predatory like engineering a financing deal and a shutdown that would leave them with a near-monopoly in MDW, right ?

 

[Pickle]

Some of the ATA expansion is still in play, at least some property issues. There is a very large building just North of Midway Airport on Archer Avenue that ATA was going to turn into a very large training facility.

It is entirely possible that I am wrong here, but I am pretty certain that the property that was to be the ATA training center is at 72nd and Cicero, where the yellow lot is and the 72nd street employee lot.

 

[Jim Smyth]

It is entirely possible that I am wrong here, but I am pretty certain that the property that was to be the ATA training center is at 72nd and Cicero, where the yellow lot is and the 72nd street employee lot.

Pickle, You are probably correct now that I think about it. I intially thought it was that long freight building on Archer.