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ATA & AWA MECs Respond

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FDJ2

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ATA Pilots Blast Management, Lessors for Not Saving ATA Jobs

Capt. Erik Engdahl, MEC chairman for the ATA pilots, made this statement on December 9, following America West Airlines’ announcement that it was canceling plans to make a bid for ATA’s assets in U.S. Bankruptcy Court:

“We’re deeply disappointed that America West has decided not to acquire ATA. We have believed from the beginning that the America West plan was the best deal available to preserve the jobs of ATA’s employees. Today’s decision increases the likelihood that thousands of ATA employees – including several hundred pilots and flight engineers – will be out of work within six months.

“After several intense weeks of work with America West senior management and our pilot counterparts there, we were ready to announce a plan today for a seamless integration of the ATA and America West flight crews. We had completed final language for this plan late Wednesday night and were ready to take it to our members for ratification. While we are disappointed, our next step is to review the remaining bankruptcy bids and continue to press for a plan that protects as many employees as possible while making ATA a viable competitor.

“We’re furious that ATA’s aircraft lessors apparently refused to cooperate with America West, even though the AWA plan was the best one to keep all of ATA’s airplanes flying. And we’re outraged that ATA didn’t do more to save its own employees by helping facilitate the America West plan. It appears that the highest levels of ATA’s senior management are focused more on their personal job security than the welfare of their fellow workers. We truly believed that ATA was ‘an honestly different airline’ when it came to taking care of people, but now we know better.

“Unless a White Knight materializes tomorrow, it’s going to be a bitter Christmas at ATA.
But our focus remains the same as it was before – to preserve the jobs of as many ATA flight crew members as possible. We have a lot to offer, and we are open to discussions with anyone who appreciates our value.”


America West Pilots Respond to Management’s Decision to Cancel ATA Bid

Capt. CJ Szmal, America West MEC chairman, following management’s announcement that it declined the opportunity to bid for ATA in U.S. Bankruptcy Court, said, “From the beginning, our management told us that they would pursue the opportunity only if it was in the best interest of the America West and its employees.

“We had been kept apprised of details in the America West proposal, and it is fair to say that it was not a back-of-the-envelope plan. However, without the support of ATA aircraft lessors, America West senior management was ultimately unable to proceed with a proposal based on solid financial footing. We are disappointed that our airline has declined the opportunity to bid for ATA; however, we recognize the detail that management put forward into making the proposal happen and respect their efforts to secure the future of all America West employees.

“Over the past several weeks, the America West MEC has worked intensely to ensure that we were prepared if America West submitted a successful bid and that the rights of the America West pilots would be protected. These efforts culminated in an agreement on labor-related issues among the America West MEC, the ATA MEC and America West management.

“We were determined not to be behind the power curve, and we succeeded. The lessons learned from this experience will only make us stronger as the airline industry continues to consolidate. In fact, America West CEO Doug Parker said in his statement today that he anticipates being a player in future growth and acquisition opportunities as the industry continues to evolve, and we will be prepared.

“We sincerely hope that whoever the future investors in ATA are, they realize the value its employees would bring with any assets they are acquiring. Having worked with the ATA MEC, it is fair to say that if America West submitted a successful proposal, our airline would have been enriched with the integration of ATA pilots. With their now-uncertain future, the America West MEC would like to extend the promise that I will meet with America West senior management to explore the possibility that any unemployed pilot of ATA be afforded preferential hiring at America West as we continue our planned growth.”
 
Thanks to all at America West. I have run into many of you recently who have expressed interest in the possibility that our companies would come together. Everyone seemed hopeful that it would not only build an even better America West but save hundreds of really good pilots from unemployment. So thanks again. Ya'll are more than welcome to ride with us for as long as we are around.
 
If ATA's lessors were unwilling to reduce prices to what AWA wanted, that's presumably because there are other airlines willing to pay a higher price. Why would anyone expect lessors to take below market rates to preserve ATA jobs? If the shoe was on the other foot and ATA were fabulously profitable, would ATA pilots selflessly take lower pay increases to increase aircraft rents above market? Don't think so.

The lessors don't care where the aircraft fly, they just want the best rates for them wherever they do fly. Lessors owe that to their shareholders.

One can understand how frustrating this must be to ATA pilots, but there's no point in getting furious just because the math doesn't work.


FDJ2 said:
ATA Pilots Blast Management, Lessors for Not Saving ATA Jobs

Capt. Erik Engdahl, MEC chairman for the ATA pilots, made this statement on December 9, following America West Airlines’ announcement that it was canceling plans to make a bid for ATA’s assets in U.S. Bankruptcy Court:

[snip]

“We’re furious that ATA’s aircraft lessors apparently refused to cooperate with America West, even though the AWA plan was the best one to keep all of ATA’s airplanes flying. And we’re outraged that ATA didn’t do more to save its own employees by helping facilitate the America West plan. It appears that the highest levels of ATA’s senior management are focused more on their personal job security than the welfare of their fellow workers. We truly believed that ATA was ‘an honestly different airline’ when it came to taking care of people, but now we know better.

[snip]
 
vc10 said:
If ATA's lessors were unwilling to reduce prices to what AWA wanted, that's presumably because there are other airlines willing to pay a higher price. Why would anyone expect lessors to take below market rates to preserve ATA jobs? If the shoe was on the other foot and ATA were fabulously profitable, would ATA pilots selflessly take lower pay increases to increase aircraft rents above market? Don't think so.

The lessors don't care where the aircraft fly, they just want the best rates for them wherever they do fly. Lessors owe that to their shareholders.

One can understand how frustrating this must be to ATA pilots, but there's no point in getting furious just because the math doesn't work.
I believe there is more to the story than EE stated in his press release. Remember, GM does not want to loose control and the AWA deal would have done just that. Take it or leave it. JMO
 
I was pleased to see the apparent level of cooperation between both MECs. List integrations can be very contentious affairs, but apparently an agreement was reached, without acrimony, between both MECs should an acquisition/merger have occurred. Given the history of list integrations, this was a class act by two classy pilot groups.


I wish the best for the ATA employees, they're world class professionals.

“After several intense weeks of work with America West senior management and our pilot counterparts there, we were ready to announce a plan today for a seamless integration of the ATA and America West flight crews.”

“Over the past several weeks, the America West MEC has worked intensely to ensure that we were prepared if America West submitted a successful bid and that the rights of the America West pilots would be protected. These efforts culminated in an agreement on labor-related issues among the America West MEC, the ATA MEC and America West management."
 
vc10 said:
If ATA's lessors were unwilling to reduce prices to what AWA wanted, that's presumably because there are other airlines willing to pay a higher price. Why would anyone expect lessors to take below market rates to preserve ATA jobs? If the shoe was on the other foot and ATA were fabulously profitable, would ATA pilots selflessly take lower pay increases to increase aircraft rents above market? Don't think so.

The lessors don't care where the aircraft fly, they just want the best rates for them wherever they do fly. Lessors owe that to their shareholders.

One can understand how frustrating this must be to ATA pilots, but there's no point in getting furious just because the math doesn't work.
Keep in mind that we haven't purchased boeing equipment in quite some time it's been airbus that we delt with. Now I am not saying this is what happened but it's worth a look, SWA is a huge boeing customer and a good portion of the leases on ATA equipment was with boeing. Now just how much persuading would it take by SWA to boeing to can the AWA deal when they are your BEST CUSTOMER?????? Carriers over seas willing to pay top dollar for the ATA aircraft?? Just wait, bet those puppies stay right here and since SWA has no use for 757's or L10s' those will be taking a desert nap this time next year!!! My hat goes off to SWA for defensive move of the decade, they continue to impress the he11 out of me with sound mgt decisions...

WD.
 
Wiskey Driver said:
Keep in mind that we haven't purchased boeing equipment in quite some time it's been airbus that we delt with. Now I am not saying this is what happened but it's worth a look, SWA is a huge boeing customer and a good portion of the leases on ATA equipment was with boeing. Now just how much persuading would it take by SWA to boeing to can the AWA deal when they are your BEST CUSTOMER?????? Carriers over seas willing to pay top dollar for the ATA aircraft?? Just wait, bet those puppies stay right here and since SWA has no use for 757's or L10s' those will be taking a desert nap this time next year!!! My hat goes off to SWA for defensive move of the decade, they continue to impress the he11 out of me with sound mgt decisions...

WD.

Ummmm, HNL, OGG, Europe, Military charter does that ring a bell. I think it is more of an offensive mode than defensive. And I do not think the 75's will be taking a nap anytime soon, L10's maybe.
 
What about this?

Boeing wants United to stay in business for obvious reasons. Ticket prices in the Chicago area will be a large factor in UALs survival. The AWA deal would keep/drive ticket prices down as competition with Southwest would be very balanced keeping ATAs entire MDW operation. Boeing says no, knowing this may decrease competition with Southwest and keep ticket prices a bit higher in the Chicago area. Helping both United and Southwest, two of their biggest customers.
 
flyhard said:
Ummmm, HNL, OGG, Europe, Military charter does that ring a bell. I think it is more of an offensive mode than defensive. And I do not think the 75's will be taking a nap anytime soon, L10's maybe.
You are not eluding to SWA wanting to jump into International and military markets are you??? That would most certainly go against their philosophy.

We are currently the #2 LCC behind SWA and this deal could have put a serious dent in some of SWA's market share.

WD.
 
rudderdog said:
What about this?

Boeing wants United to stay in business for obvious reasons. Ticket prices in the Chicago area will be a large factor in UALs survival. The AWA deal would keep/drive ticket prices down as competition with Southwest would be very balanced keeping ATAs entire MDW operation. Boeing says no, knowing this may decrease competition with Southwest and keep ticket prices a bit higher in the Chicago area. Helping both United and Southwest, two of their biggest customers.
Ahhh that is worth a look, however unlikely due to Airtran being a LCC and a good customer to boeing as well!!!

WD.
 
Wiskey Driver said:
Ahhh that is worth a look, however unlikely due to Airtran being a LCC and a good customer to boeing as well!!!

WD.


Maybe Boeing and Southwest are, well you know, in bed together. AWA was the only obstacle since Airtran will not likely win against Southwest.
 
rudderdog said:
Maybe Boeing and Southwest are, well you know, in bed together. AWA was the only obstacle since Airtran will not likely win against Southwest.
Good point!!!

WD.
 
Wiskey Driver said:
You are not eluding to SWA wanting to jump into International and military markets are you??? That would most certainly go against their philosophy.

We are currently the #2 LCC behind SWA and this deal could have put a serious dent in some of SWA's market share.

WD.
Actually SWA has been in the military market for quite some time now. We are one if the largest DOD contractors for the domestic market. Ever wonder why you hear SWA on center frequency in the wee hours of the am? That leaves international as the only real new thing to SWA. It is well known however that U.S. based LCC's would eventually penetrate into the international scene.
 
Ever wonder why you hear SWA on center frequency in the wee hours of the am?
Not really....I would assume those flights are red-eyes. Don't you guys have red-eyes? Are you saying ALL of SWA's late night flights are DOD. I find that hard to believe.

Isn't ATA keeping their DOD contracts, hence the need for their L1011s?
 
mach zero said:
Actually SWA has been in the military market for quite some time now. We are one if the largest DOD contractors for the domestic market. Ever wonder why you hear SWA on center frequency in the wee hours of the am? That leaves international as the only real new thing to SWA. It is well known however that U.S. based LCC's would eventually penetrate into the international scene.
By military charter I was really refering to Long haul jump across the pond type stuff. LCC's over seas, just a matter of time...

WD.
 
CCDiscoB said:
Not really....I would assume those flights are red-eyes. Don't you guys have red-eyes? Are you saying ALL of SWA's late night flights are DOD. I find that hard to believe.

Isn't ATA keeping their DOD contracts, hence the need for their L1011s?
We do NOT have scheduled red eyes at SWA. If you hear us in the wee hours of the am it's either a hideously delayed flight, a ferry flight, or a charter. Alot of the DOD charter stuff is backside of the clock because that's when the planes are available to fly it.

ATA's Tritanics are paid for and since the military pays for the gas, the high fuel burn is not a big issue. IMHO for these reasons, you will see those grand old birds flying in Amtran colors for quite some time. Every ex TriStar driver I flew with raved about it.
 
Every ex TriStar driver I flew with raved about it.

Best riding, best hand flying airplane I've ever flown. But, it's a tired old airplane. Kinda like an old checker cab. Nice ride, kinda contancorous, but once you get it going, it really flies nice. Having said that, I'm glad I flew it, but I'm glad I'm done with it. Liked the B757 better, exept for the ride in turbulence.
 
What Hal said. Even a zero like me could fly the Tristar. I'm glad I got to fly it. I also flew the 757 and found out real quick what the resevoir around the cup holder was for.
 

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