Aspen Approach

[2EASYPilot]

For those of you familiar with the approaches at Aspen...does the Loc Dme E approach require special approval or training. If not, how often is it used or made available.

 

[h25b]

From when I used to go in there I never used it or had been in there when it was in use. From reading the chart there is no mention of special aircraft/crew req's. However, I always request that I perform the approach in every recurrent session.

Most operators that I know use the, "if the airport is not in sight at DBL, we go somewhere else..."

 

[rice]

No, the Loc/Dme E DOES NOT require special approval. However the LOC/DME 15 DOES. They have the exact same FAC but the LOC/DME 15 gets you much lower and has 11 exceptions to standard TERPS criteria. Also because of the lower mins, the MAP procedure requires much more of the aircraft and the crew. Hence, the SAAAR requirement. FSI (TEB and TUSCON) have the training programs available. Plan on adding an extra day or two to recurrent to get the ground/sim work done.
I have been qualified on both the GPS Z and the LOC/DME 15 and I'm here to tell you that even after you've completed the training required you SHOULD make at least 3 approaches in day Vmc in the aircraft prior to attempting the real thing. You'll also need to get perf data from Jepp or APG to ensure you'll meet the required MAP climb gradients for the respective conditions.

 

[Rick1128]

No, the Loc/Dme E DOES NOT require special approval. However the LOC/DME 15 DOES. They have the exact same FAC but the LOC/DME 15 gets you much lower and has 11 exceptions to standard TERPS criteria. Also because of the lower mins, the MAP procedure requires much more of the aircraft and the crew. Hence, the SAAAR requirement. FSI (TEB and TUSCON) have the training programs available. Plan on adding an extra day or two to recurrent to get the ground/sim work done.
I have been qualified on both the GPS Z and the LOC/DME 15 and I'm here to tell you that even after you've completed the training required you SHOULD make at least 3 approaches in day Vmc in the aircraft prior to attempting the real thing. You'll also need to get perf data from Jepp or APG to ensure you'll meet the required MAP climb gradients for the respective conditions.

At my last recurrent at Tucson we did our high hot takeoffs out of ASE. It was quite interesting. We don't normally go there so we don't have the SAAR program and don't have any intension of getting it. But V1 cuts at ASE with the Lindz departure are quite enlightening. And YES you can make it if you use the performance charts properly.

 

[HMR]

Most operators that I know use the, "if the airport is not in sight at DBL, we go somewhere else..."

That's what we use. We're in and out of ASE 20+ times per year. The boss keeps a full-size SUV at GJT for use if there's "even a hint of bad weather". I was on the golf course with the boss a couple weeks ago and he gave me his semi-annual talk on safe operations @ ASE.

What a welcome change from my old boss whose mantra was, "I DIDN'T BUY A MULTI-MILLION DOLLAR JET TO DIVERT TO GRAND JUNCTION!!!"

 

[h25b]

That's what we use. We're in and out of ASE 20+ times per year. The boss keeps a full-size SUV at GJT for use if there's "even a hint of bad weather". I was on the golf course with the boss a couple weeks ago and he gave me his semi-annual talk on safe operations @ ASE.

What a welcome change from my old boss whose mantra was, "I DIDN'T BUY A MULTI-MILLION DOLLAR JET TO DIVERT TO GRAND JUNCTION!!!"

I know what you mean... We used to go out of there with the Hawkers and limped out of there every time.

The "DBL Minimum" is IMHO is the way to operate and it is in use by a number of operators.

 

[rice]

The "DBL Minimum" is IMHO in the way to operate and it is in use by a number of operators.[/quote]

Very good advice!!!!!!!
In fact if I weren't in a 900 or 50 and very light on fuel I wouldn't even think of flying the LOC/DME 15. The missed is just to demanding of the aircraft and the crew. Another point many don't consider is what would you do if you descend below the MDA but have a balked landing (for whatever reason). If you haven't planned and trained for that occurence then you'll likely become the next statistic.

 

[h25b]

Very good advice!!!!!!!
In fact if I weren't in a 900 or 50 and very light on fuel I wouldn't even think of flying the LOC/DME 15. The missed is just to demanding of the aircraft and the crew. Another point many don't consider is what would you do if you descend below the MDA but have a balked landing (for whatever reason). If you haven't planned and trained for that occurence then you'll likely become the next statistic.

I haven't flown either (unfortunately) but I would say that the 900EX and 50EX are the perfect equipment for that airport...

The balked landing scenerio is under considered. I believe if I sat down and thought about it I have gone around more from below 200' AGL than I have from above 200' AGL. In other words, I think I have gone around less for weather (ceilings/vis.) than I have for other variables...

 

[gutshotdraw]

The airport manager finally blinked. Paperwork has been signed and returned to FAA for final approval.

Beginning this winter, Netjets Gulfstream aircraft (not that G-200 thingy) will begin using a P-RNAV/VNAV approach to ASE that roughly follows the path of the Roaring Fork river. Minimums of about 600 AGL and 1 1/4 mile for G-IV, 500 and 1 mile for G-V. Although coded in everybody's database, it is a proprietary approach and will only be assigned to QS aircraft. It will be approved for night approaches too.

One word: Yikes!

 

[Rick1128]

The airport manager finally blinked. Paperwork has been signed and returned to FAA for final approval.

Beginning this winter, Netjets Gulfstream aircraft (not that G-200 thingy) will begin using a P-RNAV/VNAV approach to ASE that roughly follows the path of the Roaring Fork river. Minimums of about 600 AGL and 1 1/4 mile for G-IV, 500 and 1 mile for G-V. Although coded in everybody's database, it is a proprietary approach and will only be assigned to QS aircraft. It will be approved for night approaches too.

One word: Yikes!

I used to do the old VOR approach at night all the time in a CV580, many years ago. Veeeeeeery Interesting.