ASEL pilot log intrument time in AMEL acft?

[cart]

If a pilot is ASEL Instrument rated, can s/he log instrument time in a twin if the PIC is not a CFI?

 

[Steveair]

Well, based on what you've said, no. The person logging the instrument time would can't JUST log instrument time. Since he/she is not rated in the airplane and the other person is not a CFI, your friend can log the time neither as PIC nor Dual received. There's your problem.... Hope that helps.

 

[Steveair]

God... sorry for the terrible sentence structure. Time for bed.

 

[Ralgha]

That would be like an instructor with only an instrument rating giving instrument instructing in a twin.

 

[User546]

What if he's logging the instrument time with one engine shut down??

 

[rush28f]

What if he's logging the instrument time with one engine shut down??

HA HA, NO!

 

[minitour]

That would be like an instructor with only an instrument rating giving instrument instructing in a twin.

If your flight instructor certificate says "Instrument Airplane"...

why would that be a problem?

-mini

 

[Ralgha]

If your flight instructor certificate says "Instrument Airplane"...

why would that be a problem?

-mini

Because of this little gem right here:

§ 61.195 Flight instructor limitations and qualifications.


(b) Aircraft ratings. A flight instructor may not conduct flight training in any aircraft for which the flight instructor does not hold:

(1) A pilot certificate and flight instructor certificate with the applicable category and class rating; and

(2) If appropriate, a type rating.


If you look at your pilot certificate, it says "Instrument Airplane" also. Can a Airplane Single-Engine Land, Instrument Airplane pilot fly a twin as long as he/she never looks out the windows? I think not.

 

[minitour]

huh...how bout dem apples...

I wonder why the misunderstanding 'round dees here parts on that one...

Great catch. Thanks

-mini

 

[midlifeflyer]

huh...how bout dem apples...
I wonder why the misunderstanding 'round dees here parts on that one...

Probably because John Lynch's Part 61 FAQ has said so for a long time.

 

[nosehair]

Well, based on what you've said, no. The person logging the instrument time would can't JUST log instrument time. Since he/she is not rated in the airplane and the other person is not a CFI, your friend can log the time neither as PIC nor Dual received. There's your problem.... Hope that helps.

OK, I'll try this one..."can't JUST log instrument time."...why not?

You're right about "can't log PIC or dual recieved"...but look at 61.51(g) "A person may log instrument time when the person operates the aircraft soley by reference to instruments..."

Doesn't say "in an aircraft you are rated in". Says that to log PIC, but not instruments.

It would not count as PIC, Dual, or total, or any other kind of time, but think about it, it is manipulating the controls, or operating the aircraft by reference to instruments and should be countable as "instrument time".

 

[midlifeflyer]

Doesn't say "in an aircraft you are rated in". Says that to log PIC, but not instruments.

No, but it does say,

"A person may log instrument time only for that flight time when the person operates the aircraft solely by reference to instruments under actual or simulated instrument flight conditions."

The non-rated person not taking instruction doesn't have "flight time." Check the definitions of "flight time" and "pilot time"

 

[pilotyip]

An ASEL is not rated in a MEL airplane, therefore without a MECFI an ASEL can not legally log any time in a MEL airplane. If the MECFI was also a CFII, then the ASEL could log both MEL dual and inst time.

 

[nosehair]

No, but it does say,

"A person may log instrument time only for that flight time when the person operates the aircraft solely by reference to instruments...
Check the definitions of "flight time" and "pilot time"

OK, you got me... can't get around that one...

 

[Lil Jon]

where is the definition of "pilot time"? i dont see it in 1.1

 

[nosehair]

Those are the first two words in the definition of flight time: "Pilot time that commences..."

 

[midlifeflyer]

where is the definition of "pilot time"? i dont see it in 1.1

Check 61.1

 

[Lil Jon]

found it, thanks