ASAP program and ASA

[flyinhigh6165]

Just curious why ASA doesnt have the ASAP program? We can all benefit from having it here...what gives?

 

[TOOL CRIB]

did you say something??? I was distracted...

 

[viper01]

Me too!!!!!!

 

[RJAA]

The dispatchers have one.

 

[~~~^~~~]

I don't know why we don't move forward with this now. At the risk of being burnt down to a stump on this board, I will post that our current management is MUCH better than the Scott Young, Nelson DeBardeleben, team who were endlessly creative in finding ways to get their productive workers violated.

At one point ASAP would have been bad for ASA because management wanted to tie a safety program to our contract, at least the sections having to do with discipline of errant pilots. At that time ALPA took a principled stand against a dishonest management team who's stock in trade was exaggeration and out right lies about pilots.

Those days seem to be behind us. It seems the Company is showing their good faith by acting like the pilots do have a quasi ASAP program. However, it is hard to put any trust in an informal process when your career is at stake. This pilot's vote on ASAP has changed from "No" to "Yes." For a better answer call your ALPA Safety Chairman who's name is on the ALPA web site under the list of contacts for the various Departments.

 

[601Pilot]

Just curious why ASA doesnt have the ASAP program? We can all benefit from having it here...what gives?

I think we are too busy working on this d@*n contract!

 

[Speedtape]

I don't know why we don't move forward with this now. At the risk of being burnt down to a stump on this board, I will post that our current management is MUCH better than the Scott Young, Nelson DeBardeleben, team who were endlessly creative in finding ways to get their productive workers violated.

At one point ASAP would have been bad for ASA because management wanted to tie a safety program to our contract, at least the sections having to do with discipline of errant pilots. At that time ALPA took a principled stand against a dishonest management team who's stock in trade was exaggeration and out right lies about pilots.

Those days seem to be behind us. It seems the Company is showing their good faith by acting like the pilots do have a quasi ASAP program. However, it is hard to put any trust in an informal process when your career is at stake. This pilot's vote on ASAP has changed from "No" to "Yes." For a better answer call your ALPA Safety Chairman who's name is on the ALPA web site under the list of contacts for the various Departments.

Fins, with all due respect, what company are you working for? Nothing has changed, except the faces! In fact some of the faces are the same!

Delta Alpa just cancelled their ASAP and FOQA programs because of repeated improprieties. Apparently information gained from the process was being obtained and used in unacceptable ways. Do we think we can reinvent the wheel?

Your RIF forms have the word "CONFIDENTIAL" printed across the top. Any one that thinks these reports are confidential need to reconsider. It is bait! Anything put in writing within a corporation can be obtained by outside sources!

The remedies for sole self disclosure are arbitrary, undefined, and unguaranteed for any given circumstance. The risk of submitting information with all the access that is possible is exposure that most pilots should not want. Bottom line, the submitted information is not "CONFIDENTIAL!"

I'll take my chances with a NASA report. That process needs advocating as most pilots don't use itT

Cheers and Happy Holidays!

 

[Oakum_Boy]

ASAP is a joke in your town.

 

[zawillif]

I was a safety minor in college and I must say that when implemented properly ASAP would do a lot of good for safety. That being said I'm not sure what the whole story with ASA's ASAP was. And it would be pretty surprising if Delta just canceled both their ASAP and FOQA programs. Speedtape do you have a source for this?

 

[~~~^~~~]

Fins, with all due respect, what company are you working for? Nothing has changed, except the faces! In fact some of the faces are the same!

You could be right, I have not been through the process at ASA and a call to ALPA's Safety Chair at ASA is a whole lot better source than I am.

 

[sweptback]

I was a safety minor in college and I must say that when implemented properly ASAP would do a lot of good for safety. That being said I'm not sure what the whole story with ASA's ASAP was. And it would be pretty surprising if Delta just canceled both their ASAP and FOQA programs. Speedtape do you have a source for this?

I can verify this. I was talking to a Delta pilot just the other day who brought up the subject.

 

[Bizjet]

You could be right, I have not been through the process at ASA and a call to ALPA's Safety Chair at ASA is a whole lot better source than I am.

It is not the CASC Chairman's decision on when ASAP will be approved at ASA. This management is no more honorable than the last. They are trying to keep their jobs secure by reaching out to the pilot group while at the same time using plays from Scott Young's play book. As long as Mary Larson is management's ASAP leader they are not serious about an ASAP program at ASA. She has less integrity than Scott Hall (if that is possible). This company has tried to force their program down the MEC and CASC's throats by going around the leadership and trying to sell the program directly to the pilots. In the preamble to the ASAP program TRUST is imperative between the three parties. I would rather trust the FAA than ASA management but both are part of the trilateral agreement. Do you really trust ASA management to not use underhanded methods to identify the individuals who report ASAP events? Do you really believe they would not use this info to rid themselves of individuals they don't want here for whatever reasons? Do you think the minimum wage individual entrusted with this confidential information would not yield to management pressure to produce names?

JA was shocked when our union leadership told him that the level of trust in ASA management was so weak that ASAP was not an option under the present leadership! A senior captain (over 25 years) told Mary Larson in recurrent that he would never use the ASAP program at ASA because his trust in this management team would never allow that! Use the NASA form and when we get a real management team we can trust ASAP will be an easy sell. Only then will our pilots enjoy the REAL protections offered by an ASAP program with a management team with a track record of integrity!

 

[DrewBlows]

It's a shame that the ASAP program would be used for political purposes. When properly implimented, it works very well. It allows the company to track safety trends and address them as appropriate with changes to operating procedures, checklists, and systems changes (eg. racks for gear pins). It's good for pilots because, while it's not a "get out of jail free" program, the company and the FAA tend to be more leanient (sp?) on self-disclosing pilots. I know for a fact one pilot (a friend of mine) who would not have been fired for a pretty bad mistake if he'd have disclosed through the ASAP program.

I'm familiar with the ASAP program from several companies and was even fortunate enough to sit in on a meeting once. Basically, representatives from the company, the FAA, and the union get together and discuss the ASAP events. Only once they are all in agreement, does any action commence. Most are settled by a letter or phone call to the pilot, some require CRM sit-downs, and occasionally additional training is mandated. As long as the offending pilot undertands what went wrong and is willing to change as appropriate there is no reason to fear employment action.

Once again, it's a shame that politics is brought into the process at some companies. It's a really great program.

 

[~~~^~~~]

deleted

 

[Oakum_Boy]

Just don't screw up. You won't have to worry about ASAP.

 

[~~~^~~~]

Maybe, maybe not. The Maintenance Ferry flight "issues" involved a lot more than pilots. Who signed the maintenance log? Who signed off the "repair?" Who signed the ferry permit? Who dispatched the flight? Who told the crew the only way home was to fly that airplane?

You can't do it all. Unfortunately the Pilot in Command is the FINAL authority and has final responsibility for the airworthiness of the aircraft and safety of the passengers. Having some system that would allow people to work together instead of playing "pin it on the pilot" is a great idea that improves safety. This is why ASAP exists.

I've been dispatched to a closed airport. Had an inquisitive passenger who saw the airport was closed on CNN in the terminal not asked we would have never caught it. After that I was so paranoid I was calling 800-WX Brief for NOTAM's but obviously that is not a long term solution, ASAP is a better way to deal with these issues if we can get everyone working together.

Pilots have the most at stake and hence, the most to gain.

 

[Oakum_Boy]

"Pin it on the pilot" is ASA's favourite game. ASAP will not change that. You're still responsible for the company's failures to provide you with the support you need.

 

[regionaltard]

Did the rumors about the end of the Delta ASAP ever become more substantial than "I heard..........."?

 

[John Pennekamp]

ASAP is a joke in your town.

Get up, get up, get up, get down...