ASA rumor

[John Pennekamp]

just make sure you don't go about it like the idiots that ran ASA's MEC did back in 2000 when I was there and they were trying to sue themselves onto the DALPA list.. Career expectations mean nothing to some of those people. I'm SO glad I left when I did. Damn union was more screwed up than the management. Blaming ALPA national for their MEC's stupidity...and apparently still doing it.

All I can say is... wow.

Seven years is a long time to hold a grudge, especially when you apparently never understood the issue to begin with.

Oh, and by the way, the FO rep who wrote the original resolution, and brought the issue to the floor of the BOD in 2002 is now the MEC chairman.

 

[Tarzan]

I've been on the phone and gone to the office to talk with those guys. I share my opinions and perspectives. However as Ohplease said, they don't want to hear stuff that doesn't jive with what they are trying to do.

The thing that is killing me right now is the drive for even more pay. We got duty rigs didn't we? That in itself is a significant pay raise as it stands now. How you think those guys st SW get those big credits? As I've said to DN and the rest of my reps, I'm happy with the basic proposal with the exception of scope. We could get this thing done tomorrow if the union would swap the scope for the rest of the demands on the table.

 

[John Pennekamp]

...However, they were very dismissive about my opinions on every other issue I brought up.

To sum things up (for me anyway), as long as you are willing to come to their way of thinking on something, they're happy to talk. If you choose to not agree with their position, they do NOT want to hear it.

They also do not want you to be involved unless you happen to be a "hardliner" in agreement with each and EVERY one of their positions...

Excellent statements. 100% true.

Alan, you were excluded from the p2p list because they felt you would use the inside information against them if involved, mostly due to your posts here and on the Alpa web board. The true purpose of p2p is to bring info from the front lines back to the MEC, and to put out the MEC's message when it's a message that can't be put on paper... if you know what I mean.

For this reason, p2ps must be loyal and trusted individuals. Of which you're not. I kind of question your motivations for wanting that job too. I don't see you as wanting to be a propaganda soldier for the MEC, and that's what your job would be. P2ps need to be consistent and "on-message". I think you've shown you won't follow orders without question... which isn't necessarily a bad thing in reality, but bad for the p2p program.

 

[John Pennekamp]

As I've said to DN and the rest of my reps, I'm happy with the basic proposal with the exception of scope. We could get this thing done tomorrow if the union would swap the scope for the rest of the demands on the table.

Well said. At least someone else "gets it".

 

[79%N1]

they opened my eyes to a few things I had incorrect opinions about. For that I'm thankful. It was nice to see a little "insider" info/opinion. However, they were very dismissive about my opinions on every other issue I brought up.

To sum things up (for me anyway), as long as you are willing to come to their way of thinking on something, they're happy to talk. If you choose to not agree with their position, they do NOT want to hear it.

They also do not want you to be involved unless you happen to be a "hardliner" in agreement with each and EVERY one of their positions.

See, now this is what ticks me off! I have been down this same road. These guys are supposed to be our voice, not working their own, personal agendas! I have been told I am drinking the management kool-aid, when I believe I can look at the info and form my own opinion. ALPA National is driving the ship and using our leaders as mouthpieces for ALPA's agenda. My voice is not heard, along with any that don't follow that course of thinking! It is time to finish this off, and not worry about sending a message to Skywest pilots, or any other pilot group! We can deliver that message, and JA's next message will be the transfer of ASA assets instantly! Don't think so? Look at ACA, Allegheny, CC Air. Look at Air Wisconsin and their association with United, which they were a mainstay! Lets pressure ALPA to get a fair, realistic deal!

 

[JoeMerchant]

Excellent statements. 100% true.

Alan, you were excluded from the p2p list because they felt you would use the inside information against them if involved, mostly due to your posts here and on the Alpa web board. The true purpose of p2p is to bring info from the front lines back to the MEC, and to put out the MEC's message when it's a message that can't be put on paper... if you know what I mean.

For this reason, p2ps must be loyal and trusted individuals. Of which you're not. I kind of question your motivations for wanting that job too. I don't see you as wanting to be a propaganda soldier for the MEC, and that's what your job would be. P2ps need to be consistent and "on-message". I think you've shown you won't follow orders without question... which isn't necessarily a bad thing in reality, but bad for the p2p program.

Keep the underlined BOLD sentance in mind next time you receive a message from a P2P member. JP is correct, and as a former insider he knows how the system works. He is absolutely correct about what P2P is for..... remember the truth is always somewhere in the middle..... Listen to everyones "propaganda", then make up your own mind.....

 

[ohplease!]

Excellent statements. 100% true.

Alan, you were excluded from the p2p list because they felt you would use the inside information against them if involved, mostly due to your posts here and on the Alpa web board. The true purpose of p2p is to bring info from the front lines back to the MEC, and to put out the MEC's message when it's a message that can't be put on paper... if you know what I mean.

For this reason, p2ps must be loyal and trusted individuals. Of which you're not. I kind of question your motivations for wanting that job too. I don't see you as wanting to be a propaganda soldier for the MEC, and that's what your job would be. P2ps need to be consistent and "on-message". I think you've shown you won't follow orders without question... which isn't necessarily a bad thing in reality, but bad for the p2p program.

the point was to prove to anyone who's interested in the way alpa (in general) and the ASA mec (specifically) operate the union that allegedly is out for all of our best interests. point proved.

As far as "leaking insider information", I never let on to anyone outside of the SPC about the fact that elected reps of ASA alpa failed to participate in things such as the strike simulations and informational picketing, even though I know (for a fact) they were available for the events.

No matter what my opinion are on certain issues, I believe events like those are VERY important for a variety of reasons.
The info about their non-participation while berating others for their non-participation wasn't something that should be public knowledge (for morale reasons if nothing else).

There should be NO trade secrets, insider info, blah,blah between alpa and its members. NON.

 

[ohplease!]

See, now this is what ticks me off! I have been down this same road. These guys are supposed to be our voice, not working their own, personal agendas! I have been told I am drinking the management kool-aid, when I believe I can look at the info and form my own opinion. ALPA National is driving the ship and using our leaders as mouthpieces for ALPA's agenda. My voice is not heard, along with any that don't follow that course of thinking! It is time to finish this off, and not worry about sending a message to Skywest pilots, or any other pilot group! We can deliver that message, and JA's next message will be the transfer of ASA assets instantly! Don't think so? Look at ACA, Allegheny, CC Air. Look at Air Wisconsin and their association with United, which they were a mainstay! Lets pressure ALPA to get a fair, realistic deal!

hey, we had our chance to change that little problem but not enough non-insiders cared enough to get involved and we're left with the same group as before....now everyone expects or wants a different result from those same people?!? someone said once to "wish in one hand and sh!t in the other and see which one fills up first"....apply said axiom here....

 

[JoeMerchant]

Don't pigeon hole me with John. He doesn't know 1% of what I know about this union and how it operates. He gets his material fed to him by his girlfriend (which is why he always repeats himself). My material is original.

Point of clarification.

1. I get my material from my past experience with ALPA, and through independent research. I form my opinions based on this experience and research. So far, we are right about where I said we would be.

2. I repeat myself because WE(ALPA) keep repeating the same mistakes. It is like the movie "Groundhog Day" and I feel like Bill Murray. Get trophy contract, ignore scope, watch flying transfer, bitch about it when it happens,.... Wash, rinse, repeat....

 

[JoeMerchant]

See, now this is what ticks me off! I have been down this same road. These guys are supposed to be our voice, not working their own, personal agendas! I have been told I am drinking the management kool-aid, when I believe I can look at the info and form my own opinion. ALPA National is driving the ship and using our leaders as mouthpieces for ALPA's agenda. My voice is not heard, along with any that don't follow that course of thinking! It is time to finish this off, and not worry about sending a message to Skywest pilots, or any other pilot group! We can deliver that message, and JA's next message will be the transfer of ASA assets instantly! Don't think so? Look at ACA, Allegheny, CC Air. Look at Air Wisconsin and their association with United, which they were a mainstay! Lets pressure ALPA to get a fair, realistic deal!

79%,

The Utley/Tomlin coalition won the election.... the pilot's voice was heard. The opposition party that wanted to change direction lost.... now we will all have to live with the results of the election. The majority voted for status quo.... and status quo is what we are getting.....