Welcome to Flightinfo.com
- Register now and join the discussion
- Friendliest aviation Ccmmunity on the web
- Modern site for PC's, Phones, Tablets - no 3rd party apps required
- Ask questions, help others, promote aviation
- Share the passion for aviation
- Invite everyone to Flightinfo.com and let's have fun
asa reserve / upgrade times?
- Thread starter ductleak
- Start date
- Watchers 5
Welcome to Flightinfo.com
- Register now and join the discussion
- Modern secure site, no 3rd party apps required
- Invite your friends
- Share the passion of aviation
- Friendliest aviation community on the web
Stifler's Mom
MILF...MILF...MILF
- Joined
- Oct 12, 2003
- Posts
- 5,125
Who the heck knows for sure, but there are close to 1600 pilots I believe, so do the math for upgrades, but some have estimated 6 years or so. This industry is so fluid, that what is said today will be a moot point next month.
DFW should be the junior RJ base with its expansion, but I don;t know what reserve will be. Maybe somebody else has a better idea.
DFW should be the junior RJ base with its expansion, but I don;t know what reserve will be. Maybe somebody else has a better idea.
Last edited:
~~~^~~~
Well-known member
- Joined
- Dec 21, 2001
- Posts
- 6,137
Isn't this thread re-started every two days? Why not just look up previous posts?
The bids only come up once a month, so there is no point in re-hasing this subject more often than once a month.
Off reserve, probably 6 months to a year. Upgrade, based purely on math, it would never happen. As others have pointed out, it all depends on attrition and there is no way to tell how many pilots will leave.
The industry in general is reaching a saturation point on RJ flying and Delta is close to the maximum RJ flying it can do with "Connection" pilots.
At United, US Air and American, there are agreements in place and deals in negotiation to put furloughed mainline pilots in RJ's. Since ALPA engages in pattern bargaining, it is only a matter of time before the only major airline without jets for jobs comes knocking. If the furloughed Delta boys take the left seats of our new airplanes there will not be any ASA Captain slots, period.
So, with Delta approaching bankruptcy and ALPA getting desperate for other reasons, there are just too many variables to answer your questions with any degreee of certainty.
The bids only come up once a month, so there is no point in re-hasing this subject more often than once a month.
Off reserve, probably 6 months to a year. Upgrade, based purely on math, it would never happen. As others have pointed out, it all depends on attrition and there is no way to tell how many pilots will leave.
The industry in general is reaching a saturation point on RJ flying and Delta is close to the maximum RJ flying it can do with "Connection" pilots.
At United, US Air and American, there are agreements in place and deals in negotiation to put furloughed mainline pilots in RJ's. Since ALPA engages in pattern bargaining, it is only a matter of time before the only major airline without jets for jobs comes knocking. If the furloughed Delta boys take the left seats of our new airplanes there will not be any ASA Captain slots, period.
So, with Delta approaching bankruptcy and ALPA getting desperate for other reasons, there are just too many variables to answer your questions with any degreee of certainty.
FmrFreightDog
Py-lote
- Joined
- Jul 31, 2003
- Posts
- 1,238
Long Time Gone
Never Did The Atkins
- Joined
- Mar 5, 2003
- Posts
- 1,012
Tim47SIP
Serving for the USofA
- Joined
- Dec 5, 2001
- Posts
- 1,157
He is correct
Well, unfortunately fins is correct here to include the J4J scenario. If you are hired in the first group, reserves should only be 6-8 months (just a guess). If you are hired on the tail end of the 360 or so we are to hire in the next year and a half, then you will probably be on lifetime reserves. It is also true that Delta is asking for more concessions to include POSSIBLE furloughs. If they get the furloughs or are unable to secure any recalls at all, then you can expect some sort of J4J protocol or secondary subsidiary on a DCI certificate. This is being debated currently. With negotiations approaching, you can bet that some or all of those 25 RJ's might end up at another carrier as a bargaining tool. The future is very fluid at this time, but ASA currently has one of the better ones out there. Just another take on the situation.
Well, unfortunately fins is correct here to include the J4J scenario. If you are hired in the first group, reserves should only be 6-8 months (just a guess). If you are hired on the tail end of the 360 or so we are to hire in the next year and a half, then you will probably be on lifetime reserves. It is also true that Delta is asking for more concessions to include POSSIBLE furloughs. If they get the furloughs or are unable to secure any recalls at all, then you can expect some sort of J4J protocol or secondary subsidiary on a DCI certificate. This is being debated currently. With negotiations approaching, you can bet that some or all of those 25 RJ's might end up at another carrier as a bargaining tool. The future is very fluid at this time, but ASA currently has one of the better ones out there. Just another take on the situation.
numbers please . .
Can anyone tell me exactly how many lines there are for 200 FO's in DFW? To include nap lines and relief lines. I have heard there is around an 11% target for the number of reserves. Now, how many 200 FO's are there currently in DFW? Not including the Mar 15th class that is. Thanks.
Can anyone tell me exactly how many lines there are for 200 FO's in DFW? To include nap lines and relief lines. I have heard there is around an 11% target for the number of reserves. Now, how many 200 FO's are there currently in DFW? Not including the Mar 15th class that is. Thanks.
CF34-3B1
Well-known member
- Joined
- Mar 6, 2002
- Posts
- 831
Re: numbers please . .
There are 181 FOs on the -200, not counting the 10 in the current class.
April bid packet had 149 hard lines, which includes 24 nap lines. 14 Relief lines and the rest reserve.
The company must build 1 reserve line for every 9 hard lines per the contract. (Build, not staff........)
Welcome to Dallas.
btflyer2 said:
There are 181 FOs on the -200, not counting the 10 in the current class.
April bid packet had 149 hard lines, which includes 24 nap lines. 14 Relief lines and the rest reserve.
The company must build 1 reserve line for every 9 hard lines per the contract. (Build, not staff........)
Welcome to Dallas.
Another RJDC thread. Ok, here goes:
The DAL MEC can do whatever it want's to do as far as controling the flying that happens on the whole DAL property (ASA, Comair, and DAL). Why, because they have scope that controls how much flying can be outsourced. If they make an offer to DAL management for all DAL Connection flying, and management takes their offer, all ASA and Comair aircraft could be transfered to mainline, and ASA and Comair could be gone tomorrow.
What can we at ASA and Comair do about it? Nothing, as long as we do not control any DAL flying through our contracts. Our contracts only control flying at ASA and Comair respectively. If DAL management ever decides to shut us down and transfer our aircraft somewhere else (mainline or to another airline like Skywest) that is the end of it.
If I were a newhire, I would not worry about this at all. While DAL could transfer our aircraft to mainline, it is very unlikely to happen. It would cost more money than DAL has or could borrow to make this happen. I feel that J4J would only happen if management wants more RJ's that the curent DAL PWA allows, and cuts a deal with the DAL MEC to get the additional aircraft by agreeing to staff them with mainline pilots. If this happens, it will be for aircraft above what we already have on the property and on order at ASA and Comair. It would likely have no effect on current ASA or Comair pilots, as these aircraft would be flown by either DAL mainline or a new WO staffed by DAL mainline.
Don't worry about aircraft that we do not have. It would only be a problem if our MEC's at ASA and Comair agreed to allow mainline pilots to come to ASA or Comair with their mainline seniority. Why might they do something like this? Well, maybe if it has no effect on the senior pilots (all DAL furloughs are junior to them) and they get something they want in return (like a retirement with full credit for their whole career at ASA or a DAL seniority number for all Captains). Then you might see a sellout of the junior pilots at ASA and Comair, but I don't think this is likely to happen.
The DAL MEC can do whatever it want's to do as far as controling the flying that happens on the whole DAL property (ASA, Comair, and DAL). Why, because they have scope that controls how much flying can be outsourced. If they make an offer to DAL management for all DAL Connection flying, and management takes their offer, all ASA and Comair aircraft could be transfered to mainline, and ASA and Comair could be gone tomorrow.
What can we at ASA and Comair do about it? Nothing, as long as we do not control any DAL flying through our contracts. Our contracts only control flying at ASA and Comair respectively. If DAL management ever decides to shut us down and transfer our aircraft somewhere else (mainline or to another airline like Skywest) that is the end of it.
If I were a newhire, I would not worry about this at all. While DAL could transfer our aircraft to mainline, it is very unlikely to happen. It would cost more money than DAL has or could borrow to make this happen. I feel that J4J would only happen if management wants more RJ's that the curent DAL PWA allows, and cuts a deal with the DAL MEC to get the additional aircraft by agreeing to staff them with mainline pilots. If this happens, it will be for aircraft above what we already have on the property and on order at ASA and Comair. It would likely have no effect on current ASA or Comair pilots, as these aircraft would be flown by either DAL mainline or a new WO staffed by DAL mainline.
Don't worry about aircraft that we do not have. It would only be a problem if our MEC's at ASA and Comair agreed to allow mainline pilots to come to ASA or Comair with their mainline seniority. Why might they do something like this? Well, maybe if it has no effect on the senior pilots (all DAL furloughs are junior to them) and they get something they want in return (like a retirement with full credit for their whole career at ASA or a DAL seniority number for all Captains). Then you might see a sellout of the junior pilots at ASA and Comair, but I don't think this is likely to happen.
Last edited:
Tim47SIP
Serving for the USofA
- Joined
- Dec 5, 2001
- Posts
- 1,157
Reservs Baby!
On the latest prelim, CR7 captain went pretty junior in DFW (about 3.5 to 4 years with ASA).
Just think how long those guys will be on reserves. I dont think they will get off of it for years. I have 35 or so guys junior to me in the left seat in DFW, but I am in no way giving up the qual of life for the left seat. If I needed the money, maybe. I think in the next 4-5 months, we will see quite a few senior FO's transfer to DFW to take those CPT slots on the 50. The 70 will start getting more senior CPT's as the lines improve which will ensure a long lived reserve sentence for those junior 70 CPT's. Aditionally, GG's letter stated "a majority of the 70's will go to ATL". I doesnt look that way based on the current and previous prelims. They have been primarily DFW. What gives. Maybe a greater expansion towards the end of the year. The 70 deliveries are behind schedule (I believe). We are still getting 12 more this year which will be 1.5 per month. When the 50's start showing up, then we will see quite a bit of movement on the FO side of the house. I think things are starting to look on the bright side! Finaly
On the latest prelim, CR7 captain went pretty junior in DFW (about 3.5 to 4 years with ASA).
Just think how long those guys will be on reserves. I dont think they will get off of it for years. I have 35 or so guys junior to me in the left seat in DFW, but I am in no way giving up the qual of life for the left seat. If I needed the money, maybe. I think in the next 4-5 months, we will see quite a few senior FO's transfer to DFW to take those CPT slots on the 50. The 70 will start getting more senior CPT's as the lines improve which will ensure a long lived reserve sentence for those junior 70 CPT's. Aditionally, GG's letter stated "a majority of the 70's will go to ATL". I doesnt look that way based on the current and previous prelims. They have been primarily DFW. What gives. Maybe a greater expansion towards the end of the year. The 70 deliveries are behind schedule (I believe). We are still getting 12 more this year which will be 1.5 per month. When the 50's start showing up, then we will see quite a bit of movement on the FO side of the house. I think things are starting to look on the bright side! Finaly
Yes, they will be on reserve forever. Once we finish the CR7 deliveries this year, that will be it. Better to get a left seat on something as quickly as you can, eventually ASA growth will end forever (at least for now).
I am also wondering about the CR7 placement. They keep adding pilots in ATL, but the lines are shrinking every month. What gives?
I am also wondering about the CR7 placement. They keep adding pilots in ATL, but the lines are shrinking every month. What gives?
Share this page
Latest resources
-
-
-
-
-
AC 90-89C - Amateur-Built Aircraft and Ultralight Flight Testing HandbookAmateur-Built Aircraft and Ultralight Flight Testing Handbook
- Neal
- Updated:
