ASA Predictions

[WWEfan]

So........if it were 50% retro, with all of the additional gains in this contract (you know, the ones that were the important issues to the pilot group when all this started, like scheduling, reserve, trip swapping, commuter clause, etc) you are going to vote no?!? Just on principle? Punishment? I just don't get it. What if it wer 25% retro, but.......with a killer bonus plan (which you could make lots more money over the life the contract) Are you still voting no? Why are we not looking at the whole picture, and now getting stuck on one issue?

Everyone has different issues which are important to them. I will not vote NO out of spite, principle, punishment, etc. Retro is all thats left that is a concern to me. That's right. I do not believe any scope language will be worth the paper it is printed on. The only real scope is one list which won't happen until SKYW goes ALPA. Also, there will be no "killer bonus plan" so I'm not sure where you got that pipedream from. I know what issues remain unresolved. Retro is by far the most important to me. Without it I will vote NO.

 

[enuffalready]

tomct - do you actually think before you type? the company offered rigs in the last sessions - but alpa said no because it was based off of scheduled and not acutal time.

you scare me...

yes, but what kind of rigs. the lookback kind that are worthless ?? They can offer and say they offered 'rigs' but depending on the verbage it can be a hollow gesture.

 

[crjskipper]

his statement enough - was that the company refused to offer rigs. that is incorrect. they offered skywest rigs. it may not be the version the pilots want - but it is a rig used by more than one carrier. you cant make (correction) it is irresponsible to make statements such as his that are fundamentally untrue.

the company has come closer lately - i believe they will move more tomorrow - i expect realistic cola on the 200 and 700 with a further boost to backpay and maybe some movement on scope. i dont expect any increase on the 700, nor do i need any.

i want to see alpa bring the 700 down to the company offer and accept profit share without the sw inc tie in.

 

[PBRstreetgang]

They are getting refinished for GO JETS to use.

Yeah,
We can't have them eating out of a dirty toilet can we? Remember not to flush, there are gayjhetters who are hungry out there!
Eat $hit and die gayjhetters
PBR

 

[JoeMerchant]

Prediction:

Depends on whether the MEC heard the "silent majority"?

1. I suspect that 3 of the 4 MEC members think they know better than the "silent majority". In fact, I bet that 3 of the 4 MEC members don't really think that they are a "majority". Based on that, I expect one of the following to happen...

A. We make a small move, and so does management. Several weeks will go by as the NMB evaluates the situation. More meetings in August.... probably 2 more... wash, rinse, repeat....

B. ALPA says No More Movement! In this case, the NMB will park us indefinately.....

2. If the MEC is listening, then we will modify our position, especially in terms of 70 pay, PBS, and retro. Then things will start to move. This is highly unlikely IMO....

Either A. or B. of #1 will most likely happen.....

 

[WWEfan]

Again, Joey, if you had only gone to the LEC meeting.....

If the MEC was listening then they may make small movements, but will stand firm for the most part.

And where are you getting PBS from? That isn't on the table from either side. I guess it could be put there, but highly unlikely since section 13 is TA'ed.

 

[VeeOne]

Everyone has different issues which are important to them. I will not vote NO out of spite, principle, punishment, etc. Retro is all thats left that is a concern to me. That's right. I do not believe any scope language will be worth the paper it is printed on. The only real scope is one list which won't happen until SKYW goes ALPA. Also, there will be no "killer bonus plan" so I'm not sure where you got that pipedream from. I know what issues remain unresolved. Retro is by far the most important to me. Without it I will vote NO.

I can understand and respect your possition. However, I don't think it is possible to punish the company. Even if we struck and drove this thing into a smoking hole through a work action- the leadership responsible for our possition walks away with a boat load of cash in their pocket. More so than what we would be left with if our ALPA brothers voted to provide us with strike pay. BL would end up retiring early or moving on to another company with his bonus money, CT would move on to a company like GoJets, and SH would move on to another company. Fundamentally, we cannot make things painful for any of them. In the end we only fall on a sword ourselves. Also, if anybody thinks that striking somehow makes you look more marketable and lucrative to another airline, you are sadly mistaken. Management does the hiring, so if you think this is good dressing for a resume, you are sadly mistaken.

 

[Tomct]

I can understand and respect your possition. However, I don't think it is possible to punish the company. Even if we struck and drove this thing into a smoking hole through a work action- the leadership responsible for our possition walks away with a boat load of cash in their pocket. More so than what we would be left with if our ALPA brothers voted to provide us with strike pay. BL would end up retiring early or moving on to another company with his bonus money, CT would move on to a company like GoJets, and SH would move on to another company. Fundamentally, we cannot make things painful for any of them. In the end we only fall on a sword ourselves. Also, if anybody thinks that striking somehow makes you look more marketable and lucrative to another airline, you are sadly mistaken. Management does the hiring, so if you think this is good dressing for a resume, you are sadly mistaken.

uke:What's with your little statement at the end? Almost like a small threat......:laugh:! Bring on the STRIKE! I would like to prove your theory wrong!

 

[Tomct]

Prediction:

Depends on whether the MEC heard the "silent majority"?

1. I suspect that 3 of the 4 MEC members think they know better than the "silent majority". In fact, I bet that 3 of the 4 MEC members don't really think that they are a "majority". Based on that, I expect one of the following to happen...

A. We make a small move, and so does management. Several weeks will go by as the NMB evaluates the situation. More meetings in August.... probably 2 more... wash, rinse, repeat....

B. ALPA says No More Movement! In this case, the NMB will park us indefinately.....

2. If the MEC is listening, then we will modify our position, especially in terms of 70 pay, PBS, and retro. Then things will start to move. This is highly unlikely IMO....

Either A. or B. of #1 will most likely happen.....

Joey...you and your silent MINORITY need to give it a rest, now START HOLDING YOUR BREATHE...I'll let you know when to stop!:laugh:

 

[Tomct]

tomct - do you actually think before you type? the company offered rigs in the last sessions - but alpa said no because it was based off of scheduled and not acutal time.

you scare me...

Skippy..has to be a TRUE trip/duty rig. Not something that can be manipulated by the company. This contract has to be "IRON CLAD" with the wording. We should have learned our lesson with this last one and all of the extensions of the Nap crews etc. Nuf Said!:angryfire

 

[ASARJMan]

Prediction:

Depends on whether the MEC heard the "silent majority"?
Either A. or B. of #1 will most likely happen.....

They didn't hear the "vocal minority" Joey because you didn't show. I did, and it was an excellent meeting. Alot discussed and all of your "the sky is falling" crap was dismissed.

 

[Sinca3]

tomct - do you actually think before you type? the company offered rigs in the last sessions - but alpa said no because it was based off of scheduled and not acutal time.

you scare me...

Skipper:
You SCARE Me b/c you think that was acceptable!!!!

 

[JoeMerchant]

Again, Joey, if you had only gone to the LEC meeting.....

If the MEC was listening then they may make small movements, but will stand firm for the most part.

And where are you getting PBS from? That isn't on the table from either side. I guess it could be put there, but highly unlikely since section 13 is TA'ed.

A side letter could address the PBS issue without reopening section 13.

 

[JoeMerchant]

They didn't hear the "vocal minority" Joey because you didn't show. I did, and it was an excellent meeting. Alot discussed and all of your "the sky is falling" crap was dismissed.

Of course it was dismissed.... Don't tell the emporer he has no cloths..... I think the message has been received, and I believe our position has been modified..... Mission accomplished.....

 

[crjskipper]

didnt say it was acceptable sinca - the comment was made the company refused to offer rigs - i was only saying that they had - just not to a level alpa yet accepted - read.

 

[John Pennekamp]

They didn't hear the "vocal minority" Joey because you didn't show. I did, and it was an excellent meeting. Alot discussed and all of your "the sky is falling" crap was dismissed.

Your memory of the meeting only tells 1/2 the story.

Usually, everyone leaves after lunch, and before the meeting starts. This time everyone stayed, the largest LEC meeting attendance I've ever seen. There were many pointed questions mostly echoing the questions guys like Geekmaster and myself have asked here. All of the reps were tap dancing, including JR.

Then after about an hour, most of the new faces went back to class and it became a back slapping fest. This is the part of the meeting the MEC published in it's email update, and of which you speak. Very convenient to leave out the part when the "silent MAJORITY" spoke up.

But that's ok. Next LEC meeting, I'll bring even more of them with a recall motion ready if this isn't over by then. Can you get 300 ALPA supporters to show up?

Better move the meeting back to the hotel next time.