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ASA Pool
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>>upgrade will go from 4 or 4 1/2 years to about 3 or so<<
What? I wish it was at 4 years now! Looking at the seniority/DOH list, there are many F/Os that have been just that, for 4 years as of Jan, and IF we started 10 upgrades a month today, (which aint gonna happen) they will be another 2 years min, away from capt. Realistically, upgrades are running about @6-7 years at the moment, IF everything starts moving again.
What? I wish it was at 4 years now! Looking at the seniority/DOH list, there are many F/Os that have been just that, for 4 years as of Jan, and IF we started 10 upgrades a month today, (which aint gonna happen) they will be another 2 years min, away from capt. Realistically, upgrades are running about @6-7 years at the moment, IF everything starts moving again.
CF34-3B1
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- Mar 6, 2002
- Posts
- 831
While I don't necessarily disagree with your math, I think it's important to clarify the 6-7 year upgrade statement to those not currently on the property.bailout said:
It may (but hopefully not) wind up taking some guys that long to upgrade, but the ones currently upgrading are no where near 6 years seniority.
I've been here 7 years and I've been a Captain for 5 (yeah I know, timing is everything)
So while it's true upgrades are currently slow, the guys who ARE upgrading are not 6 to 7 year guys.
I know it's frustrating for the senior FOs who are so close yet so far from upgrade. Let's hope things start to speed up a little.
FL990
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Read my post again, (I even went back and highlighted for you)bailout said:
I said that IF it were to continue at the current growth rate (which they insist is going to continue through at least Dec. '05)and attrition rate, it would be about 3 years (at 20 pilots a month thats 240 per year times 3 years is 720 pilots...then you take a 10 per month attrition thats 120 per year at three years which is 360...so a guy who is currently sitting at 1600 just coming out of training would be 1240 out of over 2000..right about at the upgrade point)....THEN I said that it was unrealistic to make those assumptions, but I really don't think that it will be 6 or 7 years, thats also not likely...I would say 5 would be a good guess. Especially if we keep losing guys to places like AirTran and Southwest at the rate at which we have recently.
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I'm near 230 from the most junior captain right now and I've been here just over 3.5 years. I'm guessing another about another two years to upgrade, putting me between 5.5 and 6 years total to upgrade. I get more and more fed up with this place every day and I'm considering other things. Management is jerking us around with contract negotiations, offering a regressive contract in many areas and scheduling pisses all over our current contract, violating it whenever they want. Other than that, it's a great place with great crews.
>>It may (but hopefully not) wind up taking some guys that long to upgrade, but the ones currently upgrading are no where near 6 years seniority.<<
I agree with the ones who are upgrading now, but the Im talking about the ones who have been here @3 years, they are looking at another 3 yrs min. Amazing what a difference a few numbers make!
FL990, I understand what youre saying. We are indeed expecting a lot of growth and are seeing some attrition, so things should start moving quicker. I was just stating what is happening now.
I agree with the ones who are upgrading now, but the Im talking about the ones who have been here @3 years, they are looking at another 3 yrs min. Amazing what a difference a few numbers make!
FL990, I understand what youre saying. We are indeed expecting a lot of growth and are seeing some attrition, so things should start moving quicker. I was just stating what is happening now.
RJFlyer
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- 211
ASA blows!
I've worked at several airlines, one of them ASA, and I must say that my experience there was less than pleasant. The pay is near but not tops in the regional industry...and that's the good part. But there are virtually NO work rules. Scheduling treats everyone like disposable pieces of $h!t. There are no fewer than 5 chief pilots for the ATL base alone (4 assistants and one base chief) and they are all absolutely worthless. Most are really great guys but have absolutely no power to actually solve anything.
The contract negotiations are going absolutely nowhere. Supposedly 25 new RJ's next year....Im sure they will announce sometime soon that the remaining ATR's will be parked for a net gain of only a few planes.
Say what you will, but a regional is a regional. They all treat their employees like crap.
I've worked at several airlines, one of them ASA, and I must say that my experience there was less than pleasant. The pay is near but not tops in the regional industry...and that's the good part. But there are virtually NO work rules. Scheduling treats everyone like disposable pieces of $h!t. There are no fewer than 5 chief pilots for the ATL base alone (4 assistants and one base chief) and they are all absolutely worthless. Most are really great guys but have absolutely no power to actually solve anything.
The contract negotiations are going absolutely nowhere. Supposedly 25 new RJ's next year....Im sure they will announce sometime soon that the remaining ATR's will be parked for a net gain of only a few planes.
Say what you will, but a regional is a regional. They all treat their employees like crap.
From the inside, looking out
For the poolies,
As we all know, the best part of the job is when the door is closed and the CA calls for "engine start check to the line." Beyond that, things now here are IMO on par or worse than other regionals. We are hiring, and like what was stated earlier, attrition is supposedly at 10-15 people a month, primarily to guys getting on with our neighbor in C Concourse and a few heading to WN. Upgrade right now is sitting at 4+ years, with hope that it will reduce to 3ish thanks to attrition and hiring. Of course, they could have 200 people on reserve in ATL and nothing would change. SLC is super senior, at least for now, so plan on ATL base.
As stated earlier, work rules are transparent to scheduling, and you can expect to be abused and used at their will. Know the contract, rest requirements, and the basic FARs. Some of your buddies on reserve will fly nonstop, others will wonder if their cellphone is broken because it hasn't shown "Restricted" on the caller ID in weeks. The last thing I'd do is call and ask them about it, though, because you'd probably get on someone's b!tch list.
Morale in DFW right now is horrible due to 1/31/05 looming on the horizon, and scenarios like the following making the base closure that much more difficult:
-Its Nov 15, the place will be closed in 2.5 months, and still, no one has been told of any displacement plan. With just under 60 aircraft and 600 pilots in limbo, one would -think- a list of who goes where and when would be out now so people can plan for leases, families, house sale closures, etc. After a quick phone call the other day, even the "relocation coordinator" at the Deathstar, I mean GO, does not know.
-Good luck trying to redeem the S1R relocation passes to househunt anytime soon, they aren't there. Myself and a gate agent could not find anything in Deltamatic indicating that we have been allotted said passes...mgmt put out that memo on flica, but hasn't followed up by telling the pass bureau to credit our PPR account with those S1Rs. Be careful with the kiosk check-in, it will allow you to list S1R, but you'll pay a $150 fine and get a nastygram from the pass bureau since it was an unauthorized priority level!
These are just two basic examples on how mgmt is completely detached from the true day-to-day operations of this airline. After your first month out of training, you'll soon realize this as well. Luckily everyone on the frontline realizes this fact, and keeps the operation going.
Just my 0.02.
For the poolies,
As we all know, the best part of the job is when the door is closed and the CA calls for "engine start check to the line." Beyond that, things now here are IMO on par or worse than other regionals. We are hiring, and like what was stated earlier, attrition is supposedly at 10-15 people a month, primarily to guys getting on with our neighbor in C Concourse and a few heading to WN. Upgrade right now is sitting at 4+ years, with hope that it will reduce to 3ish thanks to attrition and hiring. Of course, they could have 200 people on reserve in ATL and nothing would change. SLC is super senior, at least for now, so plan on ATL base.
As stated earlier, work rules are transparent to scheduling, and you can expect to be abused and used at their will. Know the contract, rest requirements, and the basic FARs. Some of your buddies on reserve will fly nonstop, others will wonder if their cellphone is broken because it hasn't shown "Restricted" on the caller ID in weeks. The last thing I'd do is call and ask them about it, though, because you'd probably get on someone's b!tch list.
Morale in DFW right now is horrible due to 1/31/05 looming on the horizon, and scenarios like the following making the base closure that much more difficult:
-Its Nov 15, the place will be closed in 2.5 months, and still, no one has been told of any displacement plan. With just under 60 aircraft and 600 pilots in limbo, one would -think- a list of who goes where and when would be out now so people can plan for leases, families, house sale closures, etc. After a quick phone call the other day, even the "relocation coordinator" at the Deathstar, I mean GO, does not know.
-Good luck trying to redeem the S1R relocation passes to househunt anytime soon, they aren't there. Myself and a gate agent could not find anything in Deltamatic indicating that we have been allotted said passes...mgmt put out that memo on flica, but hasn't followed up by telling the pass bureau to credit our PPR account with those S1Rs. Be careful with the kiosk check-in, it will allow you to list S1R, but you'll pay a $150 fine and get a nastygram from the pass bureau since it was an unauthorized priority level!
These are just two basic examples on how mgmt is completely detached from the true day-to-day operations of this airline. After your first month out of training, you'll soon realize this as well. Luckily everyone on the frontline realizes this fact, and keeps the operation going.
Just my 0.02.
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