ASA Pilots, question on growth

[Beavis]

Just wondering what you guys think of the planned growth at ASA? I understand DALPA is trying to reverse the force majure that allowed ASA and Comair to pick up a lot of flying. I know ASA has a lot of a/c on order, but could DALPA squash this? As a USAir WO pilot making a decision to give up 2+ years seniority to start over again, I cant help but wonder. Any insight is appreciated. I would hate to jump one ship to end up furloughed at another!

 

[sleepy]

Bevis,

I don't know what to tell you. Things a pretty good at ASA right now, but that could always change. Here are some thing to ponder:

1. DALPA hates us, and will crush us if they can, Comair too.

2. We are entering contract talks in Sept. That means limited growth, Skywest invading our hubs, and management screwing with us through the schedule.

3. DALPA is in contract talks right now concerning the Scope Resets and the NWA/CAL code share. Who knows what will happen, but if someone is going to get the short end of the stick, it will likely be ASA and Comair.

4. We have no scope at ASA. Management can and will give DCI flying to the lowest cost operator that can make a flight happen. This does not make our future so bright.

5. It's hard to say whether this will be a worse situation than being at a USAir WO. We are probably better off at ASA.

6. I still like working here, and hope things work out for us, but it doesn't look too good right now.

Good luck with your decision.

 

[watr1]

I still like working here, and I hope things work out for us, but it doesnt look too good right now.

Hey Sleepy,

Appreciate the info, doesnt paint the nicest picture. I was thrilled to get the letter from ASA (currently at CommutAir) but your view of the future there is kinda discouraging. If ASA isnt the place to go, where is it? Air Whisky? Sky West? Gets frustrating after a while...

Good luck to all

 

[watr1]

Tudor1,

Thanks for clearing that up...I appreciate your time and input.

See ya in Atlanta (or Dallas)
watr1

 

[sleepy]

Tudor,

It does not do any good to blow smoke. The guy is trying to make a difficult decision and needs all of the facts.

As I said, I like working at ASA. I think it is one of the best places to be right now. However, there are many things coming up (most of which we have no control over) that could have a negative impact on our future.

We have hired many x-USAir WO and Eagle pilots lately, so they must think ASA is a good place to come.

The best way to make an iformed decision is to have all of the facts, not just the good stuff.

 

[stb]

Words of advise, you will never..

know if you made the right decisions in your aviation career until you turn 60.

Ask lots of questions, take the good and the bad then go with your gut feeling.

The future of aviation is changing, to "mainline" feeding the "commuters".
Turbo-prop airlines obviously will be a thing of the past, so if Commute Air doesn't have them now, who says that they will in the future.

No major airlines will be hiring atleast in the next 5+ years.(Besides SW, JetBlue etc.)
AirTran has over 14,000 resumes on file. (Fourteen Thousand)
Most majors now have around 700 to 1000+ pilots, each, on furlough with more on the way.
So when airlines do start hiring again, add another year for callbacks of the furloughed guys.

Dont want to paint the gloom and doom but go to a "commuter" that you think you will be happy if you are there for 10+ years.

 

[watr1]

Didnt mean to start WW3 guys, and I appreciate all the feeddback and opinions. I know I'll be flying for a commuter for years, Im cool with that. Just want to pick one with a decent quality of life, a little stability. Hasn't been CommutAir's strongpoints.
ASA looks like as good a move as any in the regionals right now, who knows what the future holds at any of these places.
Anyway, thanks again for your responses.

watr1

 

[checkessential]

If you can get in before hiring stops.... again.

 

[sabreliner]

Just wondering what you guys think of the planned growth at ASA? I understand DALPA is trying to reverse the force majure that allowed ASA and Comair to pick up a lot of flying. I know ASA has a lot of a/c on order, but could DALPA squash this? As a USAir WO pilot making a decision to give up 2+ years seniority to start over again, I cant help but wonder. Any insight is appreciated. I would hate to jump one ship to end up furloughed at another!

Just one quick point to make here that is a very common misconception among our pilots. My understanding of the DALPA contract is that force majure had nothing to do with the relaxation of scope. Force Majure only gave the company the ability to furlough the pilots who had furlough protection under the new contract.

Those scope limits were in fact tied to consecutive quarters that Delta posted a loss. After a set number (three, I think) of consecutive quarters with a loss, Delta could go over the scope block hour restrictions (but not over the scope size ie- 50 seats max plus x-number of 70's.)

The relaxation of scope also triggers renegotiation of scope. I believe this has either started or will start soon. They can't simply snap back to the previous levels.

That is how it has been explained to me by a knowledgable DAL friend.

 

[sleepy]

Sleepy are you serious!!!!!! How am I blowing smoke? Did I say anything that was not true? I think not. I focused on the facts, what is going to happen based on current fleet plans and attrition. You state "what if" senarios. Do honestly think those who are thinking of coming to ASA don't already realize that anything could happen. I don't conduct my life thinking gee what if the world ends tommorrow. I did not state good or bad stuff. I stated that you might do a year of reserve and have a 3+ year upgrade. I don't call that "all the good stuff". You choose to focus on every bad senario that could happen, I did not. I could have said we are going to get ton's more RJ's and expand out west. These are good senarios just like your negative senarios. Notice I did not say that in my post because they are just rumors and have no base. I was told alot about what to expect when I came to ASA and those things influenced my decision to come here. Alot of those things did not happen. I am not bitter, that is the nature of the game, things can change fast, for the good or bad!

Tudor,
All of our growth right now is pretty much based of delivery of CRJ-700 aircraft. What concerns me is that we are sending 705EV back to the factory (it has been mostly broken since it arrived). Also, I understand that we are not taking anymore CRJ-700's this year (I have heard that it could be a financing problem, or that could just be an excuse not to take any more until EICAS 5 is completed and the APU problem solved). Either way, Take away CRJ-700 deliveries, and what does our growth look like?

ASA is probably better a better place to be than a USAir WO. I like ASA, and have passed up several more lucritave jobs to stay here, but those decisions were based on quality of life, not ASA's growth potential or fast upgrades.

Before leaving seniority behind at another airline someone should consider that they will likely be on reserve for 1 to 2 years, may have to commute to (or worse live in ) Dallas, TX, and must live on $19.00 per hour with relatively little chance to make any overtime. They should also look at what happened to Comair with their 89 day strike, and expect the same treatment for ASA in a few years.

If that does not scare them away, and they come to ASA, they can look forward to working with a great group of flight crews. They will be working for one of the most stable national airlines in the business (a WO of the best, from a financial standpoint, major airline around right now). Our management is getting better, we have pretty good benefits, and we have the potential for continued rapid growth (depending on the scope reset situation at mainline and the conclusion of our contract in a few years).

I think that is fair and balanced, don't you?

 

[RJFlyer]

they will likely be on reserve for 1 to 2 years, may have to commute to (or worse live in ) Dallas, TX

Get this straight - you WILL be on reserve 1-2 years...in ATLANTA. Dallas new-hires have been getting lines within 4-5 months. And the Atlanta operations blows. You could do much worse than get based in Dallas.

We are entering contract talks in Sept. That means limited growth, Skywest invading our hubs, and management screwing with us through the schedule. . . They should also look at what happened to Comair with their 89 day strike, and expect the same treatment for ASA in a few years.

The fact that we're entering contract talks has nothing to do with whether or not we'll be growing. You have obviously bought into the standard airline pilot mantra that everything management does is solely to screw the pilots. What would mgmt accomplish by pissing us all off before contract talks even begin? And expecting a strike, let alone expecting the contract talks to last several years, is rather self-defeating at this point, don't you think?

The point is, there are MANY worse places than ASA to be right now, and any USAir WO is on that list. We ARE interviewing and occasionally hiring. We ARE getting more aircraft. We ARE entering contract negotiations, but many people I've spoken to don't expect them to last long. I don't think you'd be making a mistake by coming to ASA. We've got our share of issues, but things are slowly improving, and we're growing.

 

[~~~^~~~]

Tudor and Sleepy:

I agree with what both of you had to say. Let me get your thoughts on this...

If you look at the history of ASA growth, it has always been tied to mainline scope negotiations. In February of 2001, mainline reached a TA on Section 1 and blammo, ASA stopped hiring - all but a trickle. The E-120 was to be retired and pilots were being forced to downgrade.

Then scope was relaxed as a result of the Comair situation (loss of block hours as they recovered) and 9/11. Here comes the airplanes and the E-120's get to stay a little longer.

Last week, the Delta MEC announced scope negotiations (which we all knew were coming months ago) and all of a sudden, jet deliveries are being deferred.

Our jets are expensive - Delta does not want a $18,000,000 to $21,000,000 jet that they can not operate, or can not operate profitably at mainline.

Candidly, I've got no idea where this is going to go. I believe it will either be very good, or very bad. What we need is one list so that everything is not an "us" or "them" proposition.

All that having been said, my choices for a small jet job would be Airtran, Skywest and either ASA / Comair. ASA is close to the top of that list and if things go well for us (depending on Delta management - since ALPA wants to kill us and our MEC is not even able to participate in the negotiations) ASA could be a far out front #1. You certainly could do worse than ASA and might not be able to do any better. I love it here.

Good luck guys!

 

[sleepy]

RJFlyer,

I will say again, ASA is a good place to be. Whether it would be a great place to go for someone leaving a USAir WO with 2 years of seniority (the original question), remains to be seen.

I agree, it all depends on DALPA and DAL management, and the outcome of the scope reset talks, the posibilty of RJ's going to mainline, and what (if any) percentage of DCI flying we can secure through SCOPE. The only thing we have control over will be our contract.

Who knows how it will all turn out? You can rest assured that DAL management will do anything (even loose $300 million with a strike) to keep us in our place.

 

[Ty Webb]

All that having been said, my choices for a small jet job would be Airtran, Skywest and either ASA / Comair. ASA is close to the top of that list and if things go well for us . . . ASA could be a far out front #1.



I think you're comparing apples and oranges. AirTran's FO pay is Comair's Capt pay, which means so you'd have to get what Comair got plus about 50%. The 12th yr Capt pay is $152/hr and the contract is up in two more years.

Also, if a B717 is a "small jet", then what is a CRJ? A "micro jet"?

A B717 is no wide-body jumbo, but it has 117 pax, Business Class, and ramps out over 120,000#, which sounds a lot closer to the B737 that Express operates than to an RJ.

Anyway, good luck to you guys in your negotiations.

 

[MetroSheriff]

Also, if a B717 is a "small jet", then what is a CRJ? A "micro jet"?

A B717 is no wide-body jumbo, but it has 117 pax, Business Class, and ramps out over 120,000#, which sounds a lot closer to the B737 that the Shuttle operates than to an RJ.

Ok Ty, you win...your penis is bigger than his penis. Sheesh!!!

 

[Ty Webb]

Ok Ty, you win...your penis is bigger than his penis.

That may be true, but it's besides the point . . . . . .

I was simply pointing out that lumping AirTran in with ASA, Skywest and Comair didn't make much sense. If that increased the "angle of my dangle" it was purely accidental!

 

[MetroSheriff]

I was simply pointing out that lumping AirTran in with ASA, Skywest and Comair didn't make much sense.

I didn't think it made sense either. I think it was bait. Some folks like to do poke a the ego a bit. I was ribbing you for biting. Nothing personal. I'd take a 717 over an RJ any ol' day myself. But that's because I have a small penis.

Cordially,

 

[Beavis]

aaaahhhh! What to do??? I appreciate the input from all of you! Now, the decision goes into high gear. ASA called today with an Oct. class date offer. Unexpected that it came that fast. Now, I must decide. Blow 2 1/2 years at PDT and jump to ASA. No doubt, ASA is a better company overall. But I cant compare the small details. Quality of life, how the employees are treated by management (poor at PDT), future stagnation???? At PDT, things are bad. We are closing 1, possibly 2 bases. USAIR took our concessionary TA off the table, opening us up for the BK judge. Our flying is drcreasing as a/c are going back to the lessors!! Not a pretty picture. Do I want to go on reserve for 1 to 2 years - not really. But, the overall picture seems to be more promising at ASA. It would be nice if someone had the real answers to the questions!!! WHAT TO DO???

 

[sleepy]

aaaahhhh! What to do??? I appreciate the input from all of you! Now, the decision goes into high gear. ASA called today with an Oct. class date offer. Unexpected that it came that fast. Now, I must decide. Blow 2 1/2 years at PDT and jump to ASA. No doubt, ASA is a better company overall. But I cant compare the small details. Quality of life, how the employees are treated by management (poor at PDT), future stagnation???? At PDT, things are bad. We are closing 1, possibly 2 bases. USAIR took our concessionary TA off the table, opening us up for the BK judge. Our flying is drcreasing as a/c are going back to the lessors!! Not a pretty picture. Do I want to go on reserve for 1 to 2 years - not really. But, the overall picture seems to be more promising at ASA. It would be nice if someone had the real answers to the questions!!! WHAT TO DO???

Beavis, If you put it that way, it looks like a no-brainer, come on over to ASA. The first year will suck, but after that it should get much better. Certainly better than the future you are painting at PDT. Welcome aboard!

 

[ASAFOE120]

Beavis,

I left ALG in July of '01 to come over to ASA after 2 1/2 yrs there. I was 7 numbers from upgrade when i left. It was one of the toughest decisions i ever made. My daughter was 1 at the time and of course we had the car pymt, mortg, etc.. and i was taking a $9.00/hr pay cut!!! OUCH!!! But i had to look at the long term. It is like night and day comparing the 2 companies!! We are still hiring and i keep hearing rumors of 3000 pilots by the time we get done. (We've only got about 1500 presently). Think of all the people under you when the dust finally settles!!!

I have NO regrets about my decision to leave ALG. My 1st yr is over and my paycheck has finally recovered. SHEW!!! If i would have stayed, i would have upgraded and downgraded.

My only regret is that i didnt leave earlier.

Ive seen both sides of your predicament. It is tough starting all over in your career.

I hope this info is helpful to you. If i can provide more info for you, send me a PM and ill send my email addr.

Good luck Beavis, and all the ALG,PDT,PSA guys and gals.

ASAFO