ASA Pilot - Vote NO for the right reasons

[~~~^~~~]

The compensation section of SkyWest's proposal seems to be getting all the negative attention. But please folks, look at Skywest's scope proposal.

• No merger protection
• No furlough protection
• No fragmentation protection - the company can transfer, or dispose of aircraft, to another carrier with no protections for the pilots who currently perform that flying
• No guarantee that SkyWest's holding Company will honor our contract

These are deal breakers. We know both from industry sources and from sources at Delta that 50 seat flying is going to be reduced. We see all around us the shell games at Comair, Mesaba, Continental Express and other airlines. We see our 70 seaters actively being transferred to Skywest and our SLC hub closing sending super senior pilots back to ATL.

Section 1, SCOPE, addresses very real threats that almost certainly will effect ASA pilots during the term of our next contract. Regardless of the pay rates we agree to, someone in the industry will do the flying for less unless we glue the company to our services.

Lets put it this way, the Company expects you to show up prepared, on time, for your scheduled flights. The Company expects that they can rely on you and that you are committed to provide the service you have contracted to perform. However, SlyWest would like to just use you at their discretion - if someone cheaper comes along, they are holding their options open - SkyWest is not committed to you.

Being the cheapest does not guarantee growth and upgrades. Look at how Comair's concessions for growth worked out. A $10 per hour cheaper pilot can't buy a $28,000,000.00 aircraft and can't even make up for the losses due to inadequate gate space, or poor operational planning. Pay is important, but there is a lot more to this than compensation.

Jerry Atkin has always impressed me with his ability to plan for the future. Lets take a lesson from our leader and ensure we are thinking this though.

~~~^~~~

 

["GO AROUND"]

I'll second that. This contract has never been about a payrates for me. QOL, job security and the ability to work for a descent paycheck is what I will vote for.

 

[SuperKooter]

I will vote YES for growth.

 

["GO AROUND"]

I will vote YES for growth.

We all would if that's all this was about.

 

[MXAV8R]

I will vote YES for growth.

Please show me in managements offer where this "growth" is promised?


I WILL VOTE YES FOR STRIKE AUTHORIZATION.

 

[John Pennekamp]

Well said, Fins.

 

[Turkey Shoot]

The compensation section of SkyWest's proposal seems to be getting all the negative attention. But please folks, look at Skywest's scope proposal.

• No merger protection
• No furlough protection
• No fragmentation protection - the company can transfer, or dispose of aircraft, to another carrier with no protections for the pilots who currently perform that flying
• No guarantee that SkyWest's holding Company will honor our contract

These are deal breakers. We know both from industry sources and from sources at Delta that 50 seat flying is going to be reduced. We see all around us the shell games at Comair, Mesaba, Continental Express and other airlines. We see our 70 seaters actively being transferred to Skywest and our SLC hub closing sending super senior pilots back to ATL.

Section 1, SCOPE, addresses very real threats that almost certainly will effect ASA pilots during the term of our next contract. Regardless of the pay rates we agree to, someone in the industry will do the flying for less unless we glue the company to our services.

Lets put it this way, the Company expects you to show up prepared, on time, for your scheduled flights. The Company expects that they can rely on you and that you are committed to provide the service you have contracted to perform. However, SlyWest would like to just use you at their discretion - if someone cheaper comes along, they are holding their options open - SkyWest is not committed to you.

Being the cheapest does not guarantee growth and upgrades. Look at how Comair's concessions for growth worked out. A $10 per hour cheaper pilot can't buy a $28,000,000.00 aircraft and can't even make up for the losses due to inadequate gate space, or poor operational planning. Pay is important, but there is a lot more to this than compensation.

Jerry Atkin has always impressed me with his ability to plan for the future. Lets take a lesson from our leader and ensure we are thinking this though.

~~~^~~~

Very well put. I am glad to see others looking beyond just the pay. Too often guys get wrapped up on pay alone and there is a whole lot more to it than that.

 

[gator_hater]

I agree that there are more important things than the pay rate. Although it seems that is all people b!tch about. Typical uninformed and emotional union response. Trip/duty rigs, merger protection, those are the big fish.

If you put real numbers to the proposals (MS Excel is great for this) you will see that based on what is going on in the industry that the ALPA proposal looks to be just as far off as the opener that management brough out a few weeks ago. Sure we are worth a hell of a lot more, but in the current environment can/should we expect it? Yea there are problems with the currenct ASA proposal, the 700 Fo's will make less then the 50 guys, but tose should be able to be ironed out.

Bottom line with a little reason by the ALPA boys and some negotiating y the company the pay issue could be resolved. But there are bigger issues and those should be what we get pi$$ed about.

 

[Jorgy50]

This may sound silly, but HOW do you tie the Skywest to our flying? Is that in Section 1?

 

[Tomct]

:angryfireSuperpooter...people like you make me want to ....uke:! You are mgmnts WET DREAM!!

VOTE YES for me BABY!!!

 

[BobbyBiplane]

Scope clauses have abosolutely no value. The flying can be moved through a number of mechanisms. Simply stated, let's ask Gen. Lee, the folks at TSA or NWA how those scope clauses worked out for them.

You are wasting ammunition arguing for restrictive scope.

Bob

 

[surplus1]

This may sound silly, but HOW do you tie the Skywest to our flying? Is that in Section 1?

It's not silly, it's a good question.

1) You write the protections that you deem necessary into Section 1. That is your contract with ASA.

2) You get a Letter of Agreement with SkyWest Holdings in which they recognize and agree to abide by the terms of Section 1 of the ASA contract.

Since ASA is wholly owned by SkyWest Holdings the LOA binding the holding company is essential. You could wirte it into Section 1, but it is easier to do it in a side letter.

Mesa has that protection and so does Chitauqua. It can be done in a variety of ways. There are several options on how to do it. I just gave you one of them.

The absence of such a letter is exactly why SkyWest can own two airlines, without a merger, without seniority integration and most importantly with nothing to prevent the whipsaw of one against the other. It's the perfect alter ego scenario. If they can do it with 2, they can do it with 10.

The idea is NOT to force a merger after the fact, they will undoubtedly stone wall that. It is to prevent the whipsaw with SkyWest and with any other company they might acquire.

That's how its done. The Holding Company may have legitimate reasons why it would not want to be bound by the entire contract.

However, unless it is the holding company's intent to screw the ASA pilots, there is NO REASON why they should refuse to acknowledge and accept Section 1 of the ASA Agreement. It doesn't cost them one red cent to do that.

The attorneys representing the ASA group are well versed in HOW to handle the mechanics of doing it. The pilots of ASA are the one's that have to decide how important it is to them.

 

[737 Pylt]

I will vote YES for growth.

This is exactly why inbreeding should not happen!
737

 

[Tomct]

Right On 737 pilot! I think this guy (Scooter-Pooter) is from the land of Deliverance. Another idiot for ALL mankind!

 

[~~~^~~~]

Scope clauses have abosolutely no value. The flying can be moved through a number of mechanisms. Simply stated, let's ask Gen. Lee, the folks at TSA or NWA how those scope clauses worked out for them.

You are wasting ammunition arguing for restrictive scope.

Bob

Your confusion is understandable. ALPA has done a poor job with its scope negotiations and administration at the airlines you mentioned. However, before ALPA lost its way, there was a long history of success. We have a good opportunity to make real, measureable, progress.

ASA and Comair could not have scope before because the Delta MEC commanded ALPA to block our attempts to negotiate with the principal who controls our flying. ASA is now in a different business environment. SkyWest is our principal and although Delta has operational control of the schedule and marketing, Skywest is able to allocate that flying amongst at least two and possibly more carriers under its operational control.

The Delta MEC has not yet involved itself in the issue of whether ASA, or SkyWest, or Chautauqua performs DCI flying. As such, we can actually get ALPA's support in carving out our own little scope niche to protect our flying from being transferred. Surplus 1 did a good job explaining how this is done contractually.

ASA pilots need to fully realize that without scope that binds SkyWest, we have nothing - pay rates and work rules mean nothing unless we have scope to force SkyWest into committing to the use of our pilots. Scope is the basis for growth and the beginning of our legitimate contractual foundation.

Another reason why we need scope now is that the Delta MEC may not be done bargaining where our pay and working conditions are involved. It is entirely possible that jets for jobs would make Delta pilots very interested in where flying gets allocated in the DCI system (like NWA and Compass). As history has shown us, when the Delta MEC gets involved the rights of ASA pilots within ALPA instantly and completely vanish.

While we actually have a minimal amount of political wind blowing in our favor we need to take full advantage of it. And besides, isn't the Company committing to its employees just the right thing to do? This is the moral high ground - we need to plant our flag securely here.

I am pleased that ASA's pilot leadership seems to understand the importance of this issue and hope that those of us on Flightinfo who use this board to learn about the issues that effect our profession can work to educate those who see this contract as nothing but pay rates.

~~~^~~~

 

[BoilerUP]

I am pleased that ASA's pilot leadership seems to understand the importance of this issue and hope that those of us on Flightinfo who use this board to learn about the issues that effect our profession can work to educate those who see this contract as nothing but pay rates.

Bravo, Fins, bravo...

 

[Tomct]

Nicely said fins, we need to keep the pilot group informed with the IMPORTANT issues. We MUST STAND UNITED!!!