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ASA Picketing
- Thread starter Sinca3
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Hey I want growth more than the next guy. I'm not one of those guys with a good line or great pay the only way I can improve either of those is through growth. I guess a new contract could help in theory... I know if we have more aircraft and more flying we have more high hour 3 day lines. Which solves both my problems.
I just like to temper the hope for growth with reality. I don't want to be the USair guy with 16 years at the company saying "don't worry hunny they won't furlough me..."
So this is the latest from my point of view:
Despite the fact that ASA was making billions (according to union types) we were sold.
DAL who would never risk the ATL hub dumped us quicker than you can say yard sale.
Mesa has arrived
E170's with Delta paint are starting to arrive... and not at ASA
Deliveries have been stopped... (suspended, reworked, postponed... whatever you call it when they stop coming but will be coming in the future)
Newhire classes have stopped... (suspended, reworked, etc.)
Buddy of mine in newhire at SKYW said they clearly made it sound like merging was in our future.
DAL announced a 26% cut in CVG... I don't know the numbers but I know some of that will be ASA... That combined with the seasonal cut should have some kind of impact I would think
Comair sets up to furlough 150 (I heard they never furloughed in there history)
DAL announces BK
Now you tell me that ASA has hired 3 instructors a month for the past 10 months (30 in 10 months I believe you wrote)... Which with the supposed attrition and training split does not sound explosive.
I know you think I'm talking out of my a$$. But I find it hard to look at that picture and say... SWEET here comes explosive growth. I know I'm an idiot rookie who doesn't understand the airline industry. Fight now or they walk all over you and all that good stuff... Burn it down... Ground the fleet... they can't replace us...
I just like to temper the hope for growth with reality. I don't want to be the USair guy with 16 years at the company saying "don't worry hunny they won't furlough me..."
So this is the latest from my point of view:
Despite the fact that ASA was making billions (according to union types) we were sold.
DAL who would never risk the ATL hub dumped us quicker than you can say yard sale.
Mesa has arrived
E170's with Delta paint are starting to arrive... and not at ASA
Deliveries have been stopped... (suspended, reworked, postponed... whatever you call it when they stop coming but will be coming in the future)
Newhire classes have stopped... (suspended, reworked, etc.)
Buddy of mine in newhire at SKYW said they clearly made it sound like merging was in our future.
DAL announced a 26% cut in CVG... I don't know the numbers but I know some of that will be ASA... That combined with the seasonal cut should have some kind of impact I would think
Comair sets up to furlough 150 (I heard they never furloughed in there history)
DAL announces BK
Now you tell me that ASA has hired 3 instructors a month for the past 10 months (30 in 10 months I believe you wrote)... Which with the supposed attrition and training split does not sound explosive.
I know you think I'm talking out of my a$$. But I find it hard to look at that picture and say... SWEET here comes explosive growth. I know I'm an idiot rookie who doesn't understand the airline industry. Fight now or they walk all over you and all that good stuff... Burn it down... Ground the fleet... they can't replace us...
Plug
Well-known member
- Joined
- Dec 23, 2004
- Posts
- 465
Crash,
I agree growth is important, but to what extent? I think history is playing more of a role than anything. Don't be blinded by the fact that we haven't gotten some shiny new broken airplanes from the "attic" (Canada) TIC!!!! But since everyone is trying to peice things together I'll throw in my predictions and maybe it'll put your mind at ease.
CMR struck for 89 days 4 years ago and I doubt DAL and it's shareholders has forgotten about that. DAL booted Randy Radamacher from the CEO position at CMR and moved "Portfolio" Fred Buttrell in to the position for 2 reasons 1) punishment for not having control of CMR after that mess in Dec., and 2) to start the payback process from the strike. Fred was quite successful in his mission from the getgo by securing the pay freeze from the CMR folks and all it took was a shiny new E170 on the ramp in CVG and some ever so un-settling words to JC to pass on to the rank-and-file. Now Fred is viewed as a savior of sorts, but don't expect much.
ASA was sold to Skywest and part of the agreement affords certain protections for both ASA and Skywest with regards to DCI or DAL doesn't get all their money. Only downer is that each airplane to be delivered can be used as a bargaining chip and the almighty whipsaw will be used, tis why a merger of the lists is important.
Crash you mentioned Mesa coming to town. Well, why not, there is nothing to throw up against the boys and girls at CHQ. I find it very interesting that Mesa is moving all of its 145's from AAA to DAL and basing them in MCO.
Anyway, enough with the background to my theory, here goes:
CVG being downsized is only the start for CMR. With the recent BK filing expect to see some RJ's parked and most likely they will be the older original CMR birds like 7011, 7015, etc. Like I said, this is payback for 4 years ago and there will also be massive concessions at CMR to get their operating costs back in line with everyone elses. This is not a good thing and most definitely lowers the bar. CMR will handle what is left of CVG and the northeast stuff.
Mesa is going to Disneyworld to eventually replace the CHQ 145's. What will happen to the 145's? CHQ will probably transfer them to one of the other 10 carriers they code with ;-). ASA and Skywest will be the big DCI players owning ATL and SLC with some CHQ 170 traffic.
The aircraft deliveries that crash is sooooooo worried about have simply been deferred for several reasons. 1) ASA was very much behind on staffing and needed some relief, 2) Skywest is trying to get all future orders converted to CR7's with a First Class section much like they do on the UAL side of the house. Once again the threat of whipsaw is ever so clear especially with CR7's.
I think that Skywest will eventually merge the 2 groups in some fashion or another and Skywest will provide the bulk of the feed for the combined DAL/NWA and CAL/UAL.
Aww crap my crystal ball has fogged up on me, sorry....
JMO
I agree growth is important, but to what extent? I think history is playing more of a role than anything. Don't be blinded by the fact that we haven't gotten some shiny new broken airplanes from the "attic" (Canada) TIC!!!! But since everyone is trying to peice things together I'll throw in my predictions and maybe it'll put your mind at ease.
CMR struck for 89 days 4 years ago and I doubt DAL and it's shareholders has forgotten about that. DAL booted Randy Radamacher from the CEO position at CMR and moved "Portfolio" Fred Buttrell in to the position for 2 reasons 1) punishment for not having control of CMR after that mess in Dec., and 2) to start the payback process from the strike. Fred was quite successful in his mission from the getgo by securing the pay freeze from the CMR folks and all it took was a shiny new E170 on the ramp in CVG and some ever so un-settling words to JC to pass on to the rank-and-file. Now Fred is viewed as a savior of sorts, but don't expect much.
ASA was sold to Skywest and part of the agreement affords certain protections for both ASA and Skywest with regards to DCI or DAL doesn't get all their money. Only downer is that each airplane to be delivered can be used as a bargaining chip and the almighty whipsaw will be used, tis why a merger of the lists is important.
Crash you mentioned Mesa coming to town. Well, why not, there is nothing to throw up against the boys and girls at CHQ. I find it very interesting that Mesa is moving all of its 145's from AAA to DAL and basing them in MCO.
Anyway, enough with the background to my theory, here goes:
CVG being downsized is only the start for CMR. With the recent BK filing expect to see some RJ's parked and most likely they will be the older original CMR birds like 7011, 7015, etc. Like I said, this is payback for 4 years ago and there will also be massive concessions at CMR to get their operating costs back in line with everyone elses. This is not a good thing and most definitely lowers the bar. CMR will handle what is left of CVG and the northeast stuff.
Mesa is going to Disneyworld to eventually replace the CHQ 145's. What will happen to the 145's? CHQ will probably transfer them to one of the other 10 carriers they code with ;-). ASA and Skywest will be the big DCI players owning ATL and SLC with some CHQ 170 traffic.
The aircraft deliveries that crash is sooooooo worried about have simply been deferred for several reasons. 1) ASA was very much behind on staffing and needed some relief, 2) Skywest is trying to get all future orders converted to CR7's with a First Class section much like they do on the UAL side of the house. Once again the threat of whipsaw is ever so clear especially with CR7's.
I think that Skywest will eventually merge the 2 groups in some fashion or another and Skywest will provide the bulk of the feed for the combined DAL/NWA and CAL/UAL.
Aww crap my crystal ball has fogged up on me, sorry....
JMO
Last edited:
sweptback
Guess that wasn't solid
- Joined
- Sep 18, 2003
- Posts
- 1,876
The rumor I had heard was that the deliveries were deferred to swap them to CR7s. Bombardier wanted at least a year to 18 month lead time to swap airplanes to the 700. The airplanes that were not able to be swapped were delivered as 50s... but I believe all airplanes coming next year will be 700s.
Classes will start up again in October. They are still interviewing and that costs a lot of money with the sim ride at FSI, so why would they interview if they had no plans on hiring? People are still leaving (heard 18 left in the last month alone)... that's one class right there just to cover attrition.
Whether or not the airplanes come to ASA is up for discussion, but I think a lot will come to which side of the country DL needs the feed on. If they need it on the East coast it will be ASA, if they need it on the West coast it will probably be SkyWest. Given that probably 80% of DL's operations are East of the Mississippi I'm not too worried about it.
Classes will start up again in October. They are still interviewing and that costs a lot of money with the sim ride at FSI, so why would they interview if they had no plans on hiring? People are still leaving (heard 18 left in the last month alone)... that's one class right there just to cover attrition.
Whether or not the airplanes come to ASA is up for discussion, but I think a lot will come to which side of the country DL needs the feed on. If they need it on the East coast it will be ASA, if they need it on the West coast it will probably be SkyWest. Given that probably 80% of DL's operations are East of the Mississippi I'm not too worried about it.
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