ASA No Spin Zone

[atlcrjdriver]

Just as we thought things were moving at the CNC meetings, it all came to a screeching halt at section 3 – compensation. As of 25 May we haven’t heard a thing from our CNC except that the Strike Vote was in works to “End the Stall Tactics” of management. Well who is really stalling things now? Let’s see…

ASA CNC Proposal
35 – 59 seats Turbo Jet / 44 – 70 seats Turbo Prop

11.80% increase for Captains and 10.50% increase for First officer over current rates, with annual increases of 3% for the term of the agreement
60 – 76 seats Turbo Jet
9.10% increase for Captains and 9.00% increase for First Officers over current rates, with annual increases of 3% for the term of the agreement.

Company
35 – 59 seats Turbo Jet / 60 – 79 seats Turbo Prop

1.60% increase for Captains, 0% increase for First Officers over current rates, with a 1.60% increase for Captains only at 2 years after Date of Signing.

60 – 79 Seats Turbo Jet
2.60% reduction for Captains and 13.50% reduction for First Officers below current rates. A further 2.67% reduction for Captains at 2 years after Date of Signing.

ALPA, did you really believe that the company would even consider this? A proposal that would put us at the highest cost of every fleet. To remain competitive the CR7 will have to take a cut in pay, not a 9.0% raise.

Duty Pay, Trip Pay,
and Minimum Day
Credits

ASA CNC Proposal
Incorporation of the following rigs.
Duty: 1 for 2
Trip: 1 for 3.75
Min day: 4
hr and 20 min average on a trip basis.

Management expressed that an agreement will have to be
reached without any type of minimum day, duty/trip rigs.

When you are given the months flying from mainline on short notice you have to work with what you are given and it isn’t always pretty. You should be able to come to an agreement w/o min day.

Additional Pay Credit

ASA CNC Proposal
For clarity and to provide a quick and easy credit review, we have proposed to add a chart summarizing all credits agreed to contractually.

Company - NO RESPONSE – I wouldn’t have responded either

ASA CNC Proposal
Pay credit summary
The pilot will be provided with a monthly pay-credit summary to enable him to accurately track block and credit pay he receives.

Company - NO RESPONSE – Again (WHY would they)

Retro pay 100% NO RESPONSE – Don’t hold your breath

Management wants IP/APD monthly guarantee to fall 5 hours over the course of 5 years
This shouldn’t be a deal breaker

Section 27
Company wants current language - which works for me. Their isn’t too many guys looking forward to hitting 60 or 65 here at ACEY.

Key point of this is, yes we need a fair contract but also a competitive one that will keep us in business. Demanding wages that will put us well above industry standard will cause this company to die a slow painful death. Again, this is not about concessions for growth, but concessions to stay in business.

No Spin, Just Facts

 

[shamrock]

ALPA, did you really believe that the company would even consider this? A proposal that would put us at the highest cost of every fleet. To remain competitive the CR7 will have to take a cut in pay, not a 9.0% raise

You should be able to come to an agreement w/o min day.

Again (WHY would they)

Company wants current language - which works for me. Their isn’t too many guys looking forward to hitting 60 or 65 here at ACEY.

I wouldn’t have responded either

Just the "facts" huh?

 

[atlcrjdriver]

OK, to clarify - in the face of present day industry, these are the facts.

 

[outtahere]

Tell ya what, Mesa is hiring and I believe that they will hire you as a captain off the street. Get a life and shut the hell up, no one wants to hear your anti-union drivel.

 

[FishandFly]

What are you talking about "no spin, just facts"

Until I got to one of your many tainted personal opinions, I thought you were showing how rational our requests were.

I certainly thought I'd get more than a 3 dollar per hour raise out of this.

Take your personal opinions out, and then you can call it no spin.

 

[gator_hater]

Yes, ALPA's proposed pay scale is way out of whack. There are some things that we should fight for...none of which involove a number. IE scope and such...

 

[gator_hater]

I'm not anti union, but I'm quickly becoming anti ASA MEC

 

[atlcrjdriver]

Gator, that is what I am talking about, focus on issues that we can actually win and get this thing done. ie Scope and merger protection.

I am not anti-union but with proposals like this it makes you wonder what I am paying dues for.

 

[Wacopilot]

nice avatar....... Hope the new coach knows what he is doing.

Waco

 

[atlcrjdriver]

You and me both..

 

[SuperKooter]

I don't see what is so bad? F/Os should make the same on all A/C since their job is the same on all aircraft. Seem pretty good there is even a pay increase on the 50

 

[Stifler's Mom]

I don't see what is so bad? F/Os should make the same on all A/C since their job is the same on all aircraft. Seem pretty good there is even a pay increase on the 50

Using your flawed logic, how is the Captain's any different then?

 

[SuperKooter]

Using your flawed logic, how is the Captain's any different then?

They are in command of an aircraft with different payloads. F/Os only have a job because the FAA requires it. Their jobs at least at ASA are nothing more than a backup auto-pilot and load-manifest calculator.

 

[e120pilot]

Why is it that if you even question something our union is asking for, you're considered a management suck up? I agree we should not "sell the farm", but at the same time, it's not realistic to ask for an almost 20% pay raise on the 70 when we're already well above industry average. I guess you're just not cool if you don't want to burn the motha down. Oh I know, I'll taxi slow and run the APU....that'll show em!

 

[Terrain Terrain]

i dont work there, but what the hell?!??! reduction in pay. screw that ********************

 

[SuperKooter]

Why is it that if you even question something our union is asking for, you're considered a management suck up? I agree we should not "sell the farm", but at the same time, it's not realistic to ask for an almost 20% pay raise on the 70 when we're already well above industry average. I guess you're just not cool if you don't want to burn the motha down. Oh I know, I'll taxi slow and run the APU....that'll show em!

Exactly my point. The ALPAites at this company have tunnel vision and only have their sites on 1 thing, ignoring the rest of the industry.


Hey ALPAites why can't we put the latest proposal from the company up for a vote? I have to get an answer from anyone.

 

[Stifler's Mom]

They are in command of aircraft with different payloads. F/Os only have a job because the FAA requires it. Their jobs at least at ASA are nothing more than a backup auto-pilot and load-manifest calculator.

Are you Duh Angelo's unstable alter ego or what? How many personalities do you actually have?

You ever wonder why there is always a different reserve pilot on your trip week after week? Probably not.

Man I truly feel sorry for you that your self esteem is this low that you come on here and completely blow a gasket on multiple threads.

 

[atlcrjdriver]

One of the parts of the last proposal that I agree with is as follows:

Section 1 - Scope ALPA Proposal 05/25/06 Management Proposal 5/24/06
ALPA
Merger protection If the company or it’s corporate parent acquires another carrier, merger protection applies

ASA
If the company decides to merge the acquired company, merger protection applies.

Merger protection
ALPA
No pilot on the seniority list on the date of signing will be furloughed until a new contract is negotiated, and seniority lists are merged.
ASA
No furlough until the CBA’s are combined and seniority lists are merged as a result of the merger.

ALPA
Fragmentation
If the company transfers or disposes of aircraft beyond a contractual percentage of block hours and months, then the company to whom the aircraft are transferred must offer employment to pilots off our seniority list. Seniority list integration will be governed by either ALPA Merger Policy or Allegheny-Mohawk LPP.

ASA
No Response

No Furlough

ALPA
Except in the event of Merger (with the associated contractual protections), no pilot on the Seniority List as of the Date of Signing (DOS) will not be furloughed.

ASA
No Response

No Spin Required..

 

[goahead]

Tell ya what, Mesa is hiring and I believe that they will hire you as a captain off the street. Get a life and shut the hell up, no one wants to hear your anti-union drivel.

You mean you don't want to hear it.........
As an FO why do you give two sh_ts about the old fu_kers on the 700 and highly paid IPs?

 

[atrdriver]

So it's fine with you that except for the 50 and ATR captains 1.6% raise at DOS and DOS+1, that there are NO, ZERO, NADA, ZILTCH pay increases for the life of the contract. No COLA, no 3% that we currently get. Gee, do you live in mom and dad's basement? All the costs in my life go up every year, my pay should as well.

 

[atrdriver]

it's not realistic to ask for an almost 20% pay raise on the 70 when we're already well above industry average.

I also don't think that it's realistic for the MOST PROFITABLE regional airline in the business to ask for paycuts. And BTW, our profit margin is WAY above industry average as well.

 

[goahead]

unless you've been here 18yrs then your pay does go up every year and if you have then I totally understand what your fighting for. BUT I haven't and I'm looking out for MY family's best interest. I hate management 110%, but management-101 agrees with them on the 700 pay

 

[outtahere]

You mean you don't want to hear it.........
As an FO why do you give two sh_ts about the old fu_kers on the 700 and highly paid IPs?

Because unless you plan on dying in the next few minutes, one day that will be you as the old fuker on the 700. Personally I would like upgrading to be more than a $10000 raise. Oh thats right you all are going to the majors, what do you care if the pay here sucks you won't be here long enough to see it. Riiiight, tell that to all the guys that planned on being here three years then at that nice cushy major. Eight years later that major pays one third what it did and they still have several hundred out on fourlough. So you go ahead and sell yourself short because you are short sighted, the rest of us are still trying to get a contract worth a Damn!

 

[atrdriver]

unless you've been here 18yrs then your pay does go up every year

Well, it WON'T with the companies proposal. You will be at the same rate for the life of the contract.

 

[e120pilot]

atrdriver,

You have a some valid points, and I'm not advocating taking everything the company is proposing. However, do you think a what the union is proposing is realistic? How many regionals are getting 3% raises every year? You really think we should get industry leading pay along with the leading duty/trip rigs? You can't have it all.

I'm not saying it's right, but you and I don't make the rules, we're just playing by them. Some of what the company is proposing is ridiculous (ie-50% DH), however I'm seeing a lot more ridiculous things coming from ALPA. If we got everything ALPA wanted, it would be the worse thing to ever happen to ASA. Sure it would be great for a few months, then we become the next CMR, AWAC, ACA. Why not just get realistic, finish this dang contract, and move on?

BTW, you do get a raise every year up till 18, with your longevity step.

 

[atlcrjdriver]

ATR, what I can live with is a single rate jet and single rate prop for FOs. Raise the CR2 rate by 2/h and cut the CR7 rate by 2/hr with the current contract bump per year. With the current upgrade tx being 4-5 years, it shouldn't hurt anyone. The company proposal for the cpts are OK.

Fly Safe...

 

[SuperKooter]

I also don't think that it's realistic for the MOST PROFITABLE regional airline in the business to ask for paycuts.

What planet are you living on
?

 

[goahead]

Outtahere,
It's actually a $22,500 a year raise comparing 75-75, I know you can fly 10,000 hours a month as a FO, but on paper it's not that way. I like how you used my screen name in your rebuttal.
Thats all I can argue with a fellow MOO-TWO guy.

 

[atrdriver]

ATR, what I can live with is a single rate jet and single rate prop for FOs. Raise the CR2 rate by 2/h and cut the CR7 rate by 2/hr with the current contract bump per year. With the current upgrade tx being 4-5 years, it shouldn't hurt anyone. The company proposal for the cpts are OK.

Fly Safe...

JESUS. Why can't you UNDERSTAND that there is NO ANNUAL BUMP in managements proposal. You will be at the SAME RATE FOR THE LIFE OF THE CONTRACT!!!!!!!!! No yearly increases at all, not up to year 18, NOT AT ALL.

So tell me, does it cost you more to drive to the airport then it did 2 or 3 years ago? How bout that gallon of milk? I'm not willing to stay at my current rate for the next 5 years, which is how long the company proposal is for, plus another 3 or 4 years for re-negotiation. And if I get lucky and get picked up by someone else, I don't want the guy that takes my seat to have to live with it either.

 

[atrdriver]

What planet are you living on
?

The planet where BL doesn't put my money into his pocket. Unlike your planet, which is found under his desk.