ASA negotiations update

[John Pennekamp]

APRIL 5, 2007 SPECIAL - In this issue:



1. PILOTS RENEW NMB REQUEST FOR NEGOTIATIONS <> DEADLINE

PILOTS RENEW NMB REQUEST FOR NEGOTIATIONS DEADLINE


ASA ALPA Meets with NMB
<http://crewroom.alpa.org/asa/DesktopModules/ViewDocument.aspx?DocumentID=37
244>

Leading the charge in Washington to advocate the National Mediation Board's
issuance of a negotiations deadline, ASA MEC Chairman Captain David
Nieuwenhuis (left) was joined by (l-r) Association President Captain John
Prater, ASA CNC Chairman Captain John Rice, ALPA Executive Administrator
Randy Helling, ALPA Executive Vice President/ASA MEC Vice Chairman Captain
Tom Zerbarini and ALPA Director of Representation Bruce York.



ASA union leaders met with the three members of the National Mediation Board
(NMB) on Wednesday, April 4 at the NMB headquarters in Washington, DC to
renew our request for the board to set a deadline for completion of our
extended contract negotiations.

ALPA pilots were represented by our MEC Chairman Captain David Nieuwenhuis,
Vice Chairman Captain Tom Zerbarini and Contract Negotiating Committee (CNC)
Chairman Captain John Rice along with ALPA President Captain John Prater and
ALPA Executive Administrator Captain Randy Helling and Director of
Representation Bruce York.


National Mediation Board Chairman Elizabeth Dougherty, along with Board
members Harry Hoglander and Read Van de Water were joined by the mediator
assigned to our property, Les Parmalee and NMB Director of Mediation, Larry
Gibbons.

The ALPA team discussed its firm belief that negotiations have continued
long enough and reduced differences to areas that can be easily resolved.
They voiced the associations willingness to reconvene negotiations and
complete bargaining, and made clear our view that only an NMB-imposed
deadline would cause management to view completion of these negotiations as
seriously as we do. The association's views were set out in earlier letters
to the NMB dated September 22, 2006
<http://asanegotiations.alpa.org/NMB_Ltr_1.pdf> and February 23, 2007
<http://asanegotiations.alpa.org/NMB_Ltr_2.pdf> that you can review on our
website <http://asanegotiations.alpa.org/index.html> . The NMB members and
staff listened carefully to our views, asked questions and took notes.

"We know we can get a deal done," said Captain Nieuwenhuis. "But after four
and a half years of negotiations, we've exhausted all efforts to reach
agreement without the Board's additional assistance and steps provided under
the Railway Labor Act. We trust the Board understood our views and agrees
that these negotiations will be successfully concluded with the additional
motivation of a deadline." Captain Prater added, "ASA pilots, like others
before them at Comair, Mesaba, ExpressJet and many others, will have the
support they need from their colleagues at other airlines and the
Association to successfully complete these negotiations. We look forward to
the process moving forward to a conclusion in the near future."

The NMB will hold a similar meeting with ASA management representatives on
April 11.

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_____

For questions or comments regarding this newsletter, contact ASA MEC
Communications Chairman Rick Bernskoetter at (678) 640-4510 or by e-mail at
[email protected].

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ASA ALPA MEC Office . 3420 Norman Berry Drive, Suite 300 . Hapeville, GA
30354 . (404) 209-8566

Leading the charge? After 4 years?

I'd love to know exactly which part of their testimonial to the NMB they thought was a surprise? This is a make work excercize. The board knows the situation. They just choose to do nothing about it.

This is nothing but a PR stunt to make it look like "something's happening".

Meanwhile, until ASA and Skywest Inc feels any real pressure, this will drag on indefinitely. That pressure must come from the line pilots in the form of economic pain.

 

[John Pennekamp]

And by the way, maybe its time the MEC consider dropping its pay demands in exchange for scope binding our flying to Skywest Inc?

 

[rumrnr78]

No matter what happens, I want retro pay up to my date of separation (10/06). That is a lot of money on the table (for most at ASA) and if a company can stretch out negotiations until everyone leaves than where is the power of a union? So in other words, retro for everyone on the list at the opening of negotiations (I.E. amendable date) until conclusion, and for those that are gone, to our seperation date!!

 

[John Pennekamp]

No matter what happens, I want retro pay up to my date of separation (10/06). That is a lot of money on the table (for most at ASA) and if a company can stretch out negotiations until everyone leaves than where is the power of a union? So in other words, retro for everyone on the list at the opening of negotiations (I.E. amendable date) until conclusion, and for those that are gone, to our seperation date!!

A lofty goal, but one without any precedent in the industry. Also, retro pay won't be much unless the pay rate is increased dramatically... something not currently on the table

 

[rumrnr78]

John, I want the pilots on property to get a lot obviously, but if we are all forced off then what is a union for? There must be consequiences for the companies actions!!
Thank God, I eacaped but I want to hold ASA's feet to the fire!! They owe us and you!! And, you should be leaving as well...

 

[John Pennekamp]

John, I want the pilots on property to get a lot obviously, but if we are all forced off then what is a union for? There must be consequiences for the companies actions!!
Thank God, I eacaped but I want to hold ASA's feet to the fire!! They owe us and you!! And, you should be leaving as well...

Agreed, and I plan to, as soon as someplace I actually want to work at starts hiring.

 

[Tomct]

That's right! 100% Retro or NO DEAL! I would rather sit and watch this place IMPLODE VS giving any more than we already have. The UNION has come down as far as they can. The COMPANY better get off their AZZ or it is going to hit the fan. Oh wait....it already has....what was that.....LAST in EVERY CATEGORY!!:laugh::laugh: I freakin LOVE this place! But HEY...its NOT Mgmnts fault, RIGHT!!!

 

[GeekMaster]

<<<<<<No matter what happens, I want retro pay up to my date of separation (10/06). That is a lot of money on the table (for most at ASA) and if a company can stretch out negotiations until everyone leaves than where is the power of a union? So in other words, retro for everyone on the list at the opening of negotiations (I.E. amendable date) until conclusion, and for those that are gone, to our seperation date!!>>>>


HMMM. A noble request ....BUT

Let's say all contract issues finally get agreed upon and it gets down to retro pay. Let's say that the company offers a signing bonus to those on the roster at signing that is EQUAL TO WHAT THEIR RETRO PAY WOULD BE.

Show of hands everyone.....who's going to vote to reject that contract and walk off the job to the strike line in order to "get that money for those that no longer work here".

 

[doh]

<<<<<<No matter what happens, I want retro pay up to my date of separation (10/06). That is a lot of money on the table (for most at ASA) and if a company can stretch out negotiations until everyone leaves than where is the power of a union? So in other words, retro for everyone on the list at the opening of negotiations (I.E. amendable date) until conclusion, and for those that are gone, to our seperation date!!>>>>


HMMM. A noble request ....BUT

Let's say all contract issues finally get agreed upon and it gets down to retro pay. Let's say that the company offers a signing bonus to those on the roster at signing that is EQUAL TO WHAT THEIR RETRO PAY WOULD BE.

Show of hands everyone.....who's going to vote to reject that contract and walk off the job to the strike line in order to "get that money for those that no longer work here".

Yeah, that ain't gonna happen!

 

[VeeOne]

I agree. I'm not willing to quit my job for someone that has left for greener pastures and is doing better for themselves. I'm not here to prove a point- just meet the financial obligations to my family. On the other hand, I'm not willing to take a pay cut either, and we haven't done that- not even for growth.

Retro doesn't keep a company from dragging out a contract. Even if they gave everyone 100% retro pay, the company has still made money on the interest. If we are looking for a genuine way to stop this mess, we need to look at our mainline pier.........two years and then we walk.

 

[John Pennekamp]

I agree. I'm not willing to quit my job for someone that has left for greener pastures and is doing better for themselves. I'm not here to prove a point- just meet the financial obligations to my family. On the other hand, I'm not willing to take a pay cut either, and we haven't done that- not even for growth.

How about keeping the current pay we have for scope?

 

[~~~^~~~]

The pay numbers are very close to the final figures and there is not much of an increase to base retro on. The 70 seat guys want a "bonus" because the industry leading 70 rate will remain the industry leading 70 rate plus a buck. Their "reto" would not be much.

For me, I would gladly trade retro for OneList. But until we get released nothing much is going to happen. Without the imminent threat of a strike the Comany has no reason to bargain in good faith. Mr. Atkin is a very well respected and powerful man in our industry. He probably has the power to hold up a release and has been using that power.

With airline employees making proverty ages while managers take away millions in bonus money, the political pendulum seems to starting to trend back towards labor. Mr. Atkin has not taken the sort of outrageous advantage of his employees that others in the industry have, but his airline will likely be caught in the same political environment that helps labor.

 

[Crash Pad]

After meeting with the ALPA and ASA the national mediation board has found good progress was made in the last round of negotiations. We have scheduled two more sessions at the end of September...

You all crack me up. You actually think retro or scope is on the table. The company doesn't even have to consider either issue for another year or two.

The guy who said we need to hit em in the wallet. We have the worst airline in the US. Clearly we are not meeting our goals. I am convinced that we could all not show up to work and no one would care. Good thought, however, you just made the mistake of thinking that you matter.

Here is to another year of fruitless negotiation. LA closes, All non essential employees are fired, no new RFP's... If you can't connect the dots I don't know what to tell you.

 

[ASARJMan]

How about keeping the current pay we have for scope?

No way. Pay raises for everyone, full retro pay, binding scope too, and all that has already been TA'd! If not, then it gets a NO vote from me.

If management can afford bonuses for all their mismanagement practices, ASA can afford to give pilots a fair and decent contract. We're almost there, don't give up the ship now!

ASA - Last But Not Least!

 

[~~~^~~~]

Crash - You are correct and we can connect the dots. But for those of us who don't want weekly schedules away from ATL and who haven't been called by the major of their choice the best we can do is to try to secure and repair the seniority number we now posess.

49 percent of "Delta" flying is not done by Delta. There are not going to be as many major airline jobs as there have been in the past. If "regional" flying between Continents is going to be half the flying performed in the US, we have to keep working on improving our half of the 121 flying profession.

Scope is how we do that and scope is pretty much the open section.

 

[John Pennekamp]

No way. Pay raises for everyone, full retro pay, binding scope too, and all that has already been TA'd! If not, then it gets a NO vote from me.

If management can afford bonuses for all their mismanagement practices, ASA can afford to give pilots a fair and decent contract. We're almost there, don't give up the ship now!

ASA - Last But Not Least!

Sorry to interrupt your chest thumping session, but just because Skywest Inc is making wild profits and can afford to reward management, doesn't mean they want to or will share it with us. What negotiating capitol do we have to get it? A release? Do you really think that's going to happen? You underestimate Jerry Atkin's power. And I hate to break it to you, but we don't have the 800 pound gorilla you think we have to get it either. That gorilla would be the pilot group. They are not behind the union, as evidenced by how many people are still going above & beyond to keep this place operating.

Attitudes like yours are what pushes the MEC to keep fighting indefinitely. If we get what you want, we will be out of a job in a year. Jerry has already said he will transfer the flying if we're 1% more expensive than Skywest. You do not want to be th top of the industry, because then everybody is taking shots at you. Ask Comair. Our -700 pay is already up there, and some of our work rules from the old contract still blow away stuff others get (premium, leg-by-leg cancellation, etc).

I would be happy with the current pay proposal plus binding scope. Retro is a minimal issue because we are NOT going to get a huge raise no matter what. I'd trade retro for scope.

But if you're a "max pay to the last day" kind of guy, then go for it. A growing majority of our pilots are tired of this and are ready to get what we can get and go back for more in three years. Assuming we're still here to fight in three years. On our current track, ASA will no longer exist.

 

[ASARJMan]

Attitudes like yours are what pushes the MEC to keep fighting indefinitely.

Assuming we're still here to fight in three years. On our current track, ASA will no longer exist.

You betcha attitudes like mine pushes the MEC, and there are plenty (the majority by Wilson polling) who feel the same way. You and Joey Merchant keep preaching your defeatist tactics here all you want. Majority rules, and right now pilots with my "attitude" are the majority, and will vote that way.

ASA will no longer exist! Geez, you guys crack me up with that scare tactic. ASA ain't going no where.

Pay To The Last day (if you buy off on John & Joey's rants)

 

[ASARJMan]

Isn't it funny how people like John P and Joey Merchant (voted out of ALPA positions) are now trying to subvert ALPA, and campaign for their own agendas?

 

[John Pennekamp]

You betcha attitudes like mine pushes the MEC, and there are plenty (the majority by Wilson polling) who feel the same way. You and Joey Merchant keep preaching your defeatist tactics here all you want. Majority rules, and right now pilots with my "attitude" are the majority, and will vote that way.

ASA will no longer exist! Geez, you guys crack me up with that scare tactic. ASA ain't going no where.

Pay To The Last day (if you buy off on John & Joey's rants)

So we resort to labeling me in the same group with Joe Merchant because I dare question the current plan? And y'all wonder why the ALPA supporters get called goons.

My reputation as an ALPA supporter is unchallenged. I'm also an ALPA supporter who knows how to say "enough is enough".

I'm glad you brought up the Wilson Polling. We've discussed this on other threads. I firmly believe that the Wilson polling is a tool used by ALPA to justify its policies. Statistics are like a religion. They can be interpreted to suit any need. I've been polled many times, and I believe the quetions are written to get the result the MEC wants. And regardless of how "statistically representative" the sample of 300 pilots are, 300 pilots does not make 1700. If they want a real survey, call all 1700. Until then, you can stop beating us on the head with your rigged polls.

Are pilots with your attitude really the majority? Or are the pilots you refer to just chest thumping when an ALPA rep is in the room then making fun of him after he leaves? Based on the conversations I've observed in the crew rooms, and on the bus when there's no ALPA rep around, the pilots are growing tired of this fight. We're fighting for the sake of fighting. How do we win? By attaining an industry leading contract and seeing our flying transfered? That's not a win. We can get money or scope, but not both.

The only way to win is to mildly improve our contract, and gain job security. Our concern that ASA will be shut down is not a scare tactic. Your words are an intimidation tactic. Take off the blinders, put down the kool-aid and look around you. ASA is ALREADY being shut down, little by little

 

[John Pennekamp]

Isn't it funny how people like John P and Joey Merchant (voted out of ALPA positions) are now trying to subvert ALPA, and campaign for their own agendas?

Subvert ALPA? Whatever. I expect better rhetoric from a Jetdi Captain. My reputation is unchallenged. Don't try to label me because I disagree with you. Such is a clear sign of ignorance. Put down the kool aid and try to see both sides of the debate. We're on a "road to nowhere". We already have some good stuff. Let's get scope and go back in 3 years.