ASA negotiations pay comparison

[JoeMerchant]

Here are some numbers I came up with using ALPA's latest update on the payrates they are asking for.

Top 70 (90) seat captain rates
USAir E190 $95
JBLU E190 $89
CHQ E170 $99
GOJet $84
Mesaba $94 (in concessionary talks now)
PSA $91
EGL $97
CMR $94 (Concessionary rate -hasn’t taken effect yet)
Mesa 70 seat $90
Mesa 90 seat $100
Skywest $93
Horizon $121
ASA company proposal $102 (current book)
ASA ALPA proposal $112


3rd. Year 70 (90)first officer rates
USAir E190 $46
JBLU E190 $42
CHQ E170 $34
GoJet $34
Mesaba $31
PSA $29
EGL $34
CMR $34
Mesa 70 and 90 $31
Skywest $36
Horizon $43
ASA company proposal $38
ASA ALPA proposal $42


50 Seat Capt. (15years)
CHQ $87
Mesaba $84
PSA $82
EGL $88
CMR $83
Mesa $78
Skywest $86
XJT $87
Pinnacle $82
Air Wisc.$85
TransStates $82
ASA company proposal $83
ASA ALPA proposal $92


50 Seat FO (yr 3)
CHQ $34
Mesaba $31
PSA $29
EGL $34
CMR $34
Mesa $31
Skywest $36
XJT $35
Pinnacle $30
Air Wisc.$36
Trans States $32
ASA company proposal $38
ASA ALPA proposal $39


Per Diem
CHQ $1.55
GoJet $1.40
Mesaba $1.55 (in concessionary talks now)
PSA $1.35
EGL $1.60
CMR $1.50 (concessionary agreement)
Mesa $1.25
Skywest $1.60
Air Wisc $1.40
Piedmont $1.45
Pinnacle $1.40
Trans States $1.40
XJT $1.60
Horizon $1.70
ASA company proposal $1.60

 

[sweptback]

You forgot to mention that CHQ and MAG will be in negotiations shortly, Pinnacle being in negotiations currently, as well as the pending arbitrator decision on Air Wisconsin.

Also to be fair you should extrapolate the DOS pay bumps to our current book rates. You'd find that the ALPA proposal is below those rates.

Nothing to really see here, move along.

 

[Airboss]

Maybe ASA Alpa isn't asking too much, it is possible that everyone else is underpaid?

 

["GO AROUND"]

Here are some numbers I came up with using ALPA's latest update on the payrates they are asking for.

For me, I won't speak for all, the payrates are not the real issue in the companys' proposal. They are not far off, but that's the era we're in. Bump the 50 up to an 18 yr rate equal to SKW and I'm good. If they want a 70 rate they will come down on the 50.

SCOPE is huge for me! If they won't make a commitment to the pilots then why should we make a commitment to them?

RETRO PAY or SIGNING BONUS, call it what they want, squeeze it from DAL for causing it, I don't care. But they are going to pony up for all the BS.

Performance Plus: Equal to SKW (ie. based on gross pay and not base pay), not tied to a PBS.

Rigs are worthless and sub par to SKW and leaves CDO's swinging in the wind without underblock.

Dual qual, do it the same everywhere. That's stupid!

 

[airtime42]

Merchant doestn't know up from down

To bad merchant doest have her numbers correct. Where did you get those buddy. Pull them out of your A$$.

 

[pianoman]

Guys, I know I don't work for ASA. I would just encourage you to really take a good look at scope, or you might be in this position again 5-6 years from now.

No/weak scope is the reason Mesa's pay rates are low (fighting Freedom) and TSA is in the position they are now.

Good luck.

 

[SSDD]

Just curious, what would scope for a wholly owned, code sharing regional would look like?

 

[Sinca3]

And what you continue to fail and mention is that the union has wiggle room!! They have said it publicly and even to the arbitrator....the company knows it....there is room to come down!!!
I don´t disagree with everything you post or say/believe but you got to get off the doom and gloom band wagon!

 

[Bizjet]

Here are some numbers I came up with using ALPA's latest update on the payrates they are asking for.

O.K. Joey how long did it take for you to do your numbers? I'll bet you spent more time on your little P&L (pretend and lie) than it would take for you to return those LEC Minutes you stole from the LEC meeting over 18 months ago. Why would any mentally sound pilot care what you make up and post when you dont have the integrity to serve the ASA pilots that elected you as LEC Sec.Treas? If you have a shred of integrity you would show some class and return the minutes. Every one should know that you and your older girlfriend held the ALPA computers hostage until you were threatened with legal action and like the whimps you two are returned them after having your little childish fun. You two amaze me and I think the two of you deserve each other--who else would want to put up with either of you?

RETURN THE ALPA MINUTES AND DO THE JOB THE ASA PILOTS ELECTED YOU TO DO AND MAYBE SOME WILL CONSIDER YOU WORTHY OF UNION MEMBERSHIP!!! YOUR CHILDISH ANTICS ARE A REFLECTION OF YOUR UPBRINGING!!

 

[John Pennekamp]

I echo Bizjet's spot-on comments.

What's you're point, JB? Are you saying the union is "out of control, out of touch, unreasonable, and trying to run ASA out of business"? Imagine you saying that!

I think by now everyone has learned to take you and LJs comments in the context of a malcontent that was fired from the union and has sour grapes. Thanks for playing. BTW, WHERE ARE THOSE LEC MINUTES?

 

[~~~^~~~]

Just curious, what would scope for a wholly owned, code sharing regional would look like?

All SkyWest flying will be performed by the pilots on the SkyWest seniority list.

 

[ASARJMan]

I echo Bizjet's spot-on comments.

What's you're point, JB? Are you saying the union is "out of control, out of touch, unreasonable, and trying to run ASA out of business"? Imagine you saying that!

I think by now everyone has learned to take you and LJs comments in the context of a malcontent that was fired from the union and has sour grapes. Thanks for playing. BTW, WHERE ARE THOSE LEC MINUTES?

JB is just pissed that none of us (ex LJ and SH) will buy his superior knowledge of what's best for the ASA pilots. Sort of like the kid that owns the ball, doesn't get his way, and so he takes it home with him. Just like the minutes he took home, except they don't belong to him.

VOTED IN FAVOR! ...CANCELLING OUT JOEY'S NO VOTE.

 

[scott hall]

Listen to Joe Merchant. He speaks the truth. We are not in line with pay rates on the 70. ACARs is coming. No LAX base. The 90 seaters were ours, I swear., etc., etc.

 

[No Delay]

I get tickled everytime I see "Scott Hall"

You need a better avatar....like the BL clown. Still funny.

 

[Bizjet]

JB is just pissed that none of us (ex LJ and SH) will buy his superior knowledge of what's best for the ASA pilots. Sort of like the kid that owns the ball, doesn't get his way, and so he takes it home with him. Just like the minutes he took home, except they don't belong to him.

VOTED IN FAVOR! ...CANCELLING OUT JOEY'S NO VOTE.

Joey is our vision impaired ASA Resident Retard. He just thinks he is brilliant because his Mommy tells him he is.

 

[Speedtape]

Here are some numbers I came up with using ALPA's latest update on the payrates they are asking for.

Top 70 (90) seat captain rates
USAir E190 $95
JBLU E190 $89
CHQ E170 $99
GOJet $84
Mesaba $94 (in concessionary talks now)
PSA $91
EGL $97
CMR $94 (Concessionary rate -hasn’t taken effect yet)
Mesa 70 seat $90
Mesa 90 seat $100
Skywest $93
Horizon $121
ASA company proposal $102 (current book)
ASA ALPA proposal $112


3rd. Year 70 (90)first officer rates
USAir E190 $46
JBLU E190 $42
CHQ E170 $34
GoJet $34
Mesaba $31
PSA $29
EGL $34
CMR $34
Mesa 70 and 90 $31
Skywest $36
Horizon $43
ASA company proposal $38
ASA ALPA proposal $42


50 Seat Capt. (15years)
CHQ $87
Mesaba $84
PSA $82
EGL $88
CMR $83
Mesa $78
Skywest $86
XJT $87
Pinnacle $82
Air Wisc.$85
TransStates $82
ASA company proposal $83
ASA ALPA proposal $92


50 Seat FO (yr 3)
CHQ $34
Mesaba $31
PSA $29
EGL $34
CMR $34
Mesa $31
Skywest $36
XJT $35
Pinnacle $30
Air Wisc.$36
Trans States $32
ASA company proposal $38
ASA ALPA proposal $39


Per Diem
CHQ $1.55
GoJet $1.40
Mesaba $1.55 (in concessionary talks now)
PSA $1.35
EGL $1.60
CMR $1.50 (concessionary agreement)
Mesa $1.25
Skywest $1.60
Air Wisc $1.40
Piedmont $1.45
Pinnacle $1.40
Trans States $1.40
XJT $1.60
Horizon $1.70
ASA company proposal $1.60

Well, the plan is to cut the ATR rates in half so we can get a pay for training bonus and keep the 70 seat rates up.

 

[Bizjet]

Well, the plan is to cut the ATR rates in half so we can get a pay for training bonus and keep the 70 seat rates up.

Great idea. Let's cut the ATR rates 75% for those pilots who steal the LEC minutes and refuse to return them.

 

[wanagethi]

i think the top on the 70 at cmr is currently 118 with the old concessionary aggreement having been tossed in the trash, and they are currently negotiating something else?

 

[SSDD]

Yeah, but Comair's flying has been put out for bid. So what good is $118/hr when you're out of a job?

 

[Crash Pad]

Yeah, but Comair's flying has been put out for bid. So what good is $118/hr when you're out of a job?

Never ever say that to a Union guy.

That is like saying "hey SKYW pilots make a lot more than ASA pilots why don't we take there working agreement"
or
Why do we pay 2% to an operation that can't secure a contract in four year.
or
I understand that the hourly rate is lower but the overall pay is more... isn't overall pay the goal?

It is not about results it is about the struggle.

 

[Bizjet]

Never ever say that to a Union guy.

That is like saying "hey SKYW pilots make a lot more than ASA pilots why don't we take there working agreement"
or
Why do we pay 2% to an operation that can't secure a contract in four year.
or
I understand that the hourly rate is lower but the overall pay is more... isn't overall pay the goal?

It is not about results it is about the struggle.

:bawling: :bawling: :bawling: :bawling: :bawling: :bawling: :bawling: :bawling: Whiner!

 

[JoeMerchant]

You forgot to mention that CHQ and MAG will be in negotiations shortly, Pinnacle being in negotiations currently, as well as the pending arbitrator decision on Air Wisconsin.

Also to be fair you should extrapolate the DOS pay bumps to our current book rates. You'd find that the ALPA proposal is below those rates.

Nothing to really see here, move along.

To address your first concern, in pattern bargaining, you use the current rates at each property. ALPA can't use possible future pay raises, and management can't use possible future pay cuts.

The second issue regarding DOS pay bumps also doesn't apply to pattern bargaining. If that were the case, where do you think DAL, UAL, USAir, American, NWA, PDT, ALG, and Air Wisc. payrates would be today. Mainline payrates are down over 60% on an inflation adjusted basis. You are simply ignoring reality if you don't think this doesn't affect our negotiations regardless of where our payrates would be otherwise. Pattern bargaining is built around other carriers fortunes AND MISFORTUNES.

 

[JoeMerchant]

Maybe ASA Alpa isn't asking too much, it is possible that everyone else is underpaid?

That may be true Airboss, but just as a rising tide lifts all boats, a receding tide lowers those same boats. You can cuss the tide all you want, but it won't stop it.

 

[JoeMerchant]

Yeah, but Comair's flying has been put out for bid. So what good is $118/hr when you're out of a job?

That and a quarter will get you a nice obituary in the ALPA magazine. Oh and you can go on Flightinfo and call everyone else scabs - that is after you get your resume together and start the job search again.