ASA Mismanagement Proposal. Ha, Ha

[joe_pilot]

First of all, good luck with the contract. If and when it(the whipsaw) comes our way (SKYW), we will try to do right by you guys.

For you commuters, how many times on average would you have been screwed without a commuter clause? Not times it was close, but how many actual times have you missed the start of a trip on average per year.

Just curious.

Thanks,

-JP

 

[Tim47SIP]

Tim, I really object to you softening your stance on this contract. Either I misunderstood your post or you are getting soft. Which is it ??

RJCap - now where in my statement did I mention that this proposal was acceptable, OK, not a strike issue, etc? Nowhere! You read that into it! I was talking about all of the outside forces that the CNC is dealing with and that some of us might not agree with the outcome. The individual screaming for 100% retro pay is one area that I am not sure you will get, but the CNC will determine the value of forcing that issue or letting it go for something else. In no way shape or form do I think this contract as written will even come close to what is required to achieve adequate QOL issues. The fixes are simple and cost effective for the company. We should not have to take any pay cuts as far as I am concerned as our casm is lower than SkyWests. If the CNC says strike, then so be it. I will back them up 100% if I am there to do so.

Well, which is it Tim, do we 'bend' over or not? You'd make a good politician with wording like that! You'd better stay on active duty as this proposal ain't gonna hunt! Step in the right direction my arse!

Thanks Mark! I thought you knew me better than that. Step in the right direction is the same as saying that there is some progress being made as others here have indicated. That statement is true, the CNC is getting more work done. Their updates say they are as well. As stated above, I did NOT say it was acceptable. It is not! By the way, why do you think I agreed to go back on AD? I took the lesser of two evils. Quit being such a Hoser! (kidding)

 

[Blucher]

Perfect!

AVOR how many E190's has Delta got on order. None? Uh None????? So even if they have that rate it is a phantom rate since no E190's are on order. How about a rate for the Space Shuttle? No they don't have those on order either!

Excellent shot, Bizjet. I would say that qualifies as an "eight ball, corner pocket."

VoiceOfManagement is either just that, or one of those super-senior douche bags who doesn't have the balls to stand up for what he deserves. He/She acts just like a dog who's been beaten down too long. Stockholm syndrome perhaps? I'm thinking VoiceOfManagement needs a visit from the "Dog Whisperer" to clear up the voices in his/her head.

-Blucher:smash:

 

[ASApuppy]

This commuter clause seems totally worthless. Did I understand it correctly that you have to designate 3 airports with 150 miles of where you live and that you are only protected on flights that begin no more than 36 hours and no less than 24? WTF. So if you lived in say SLC (lets assume for this example that they closed it.) and you had to report to ATL for a trip on monday at 7 am. First, you have to look at getting on a flight from
Saturday evening up to Sunday morning. All remaining flights on Sunday are ineligible. All this assuming SLC qualifies as a place to live, since there are not 3 airports within 150 miles.

Do any other commuter clauses work with these kind of restrictions. Now, I know this an impressive start from our management, but having these kind of restrictions it might as well not even be in there.

My finances are in order and I absolutely will not vote for a paycut.

 

[Sinca3]

Tim I know you are very active on all info boards on this subject. So you are more "in the know" than some line pilots I'm sure. The problem I have with your comments is you have not been on line at ASA for sometime now, what 3-4 years? When you have been in our shoes actually living "the dream" as oppossed to hearing/reading about it then you would understand our anger and hard line stance.
Cheers

 

[Tim47SIP]

Understood!

Sinca, 20 months to be exact. Going on 6 years with ASA in August but I understand your point. My point was that it was so BAD there that I decided to accept an offer for the position I am now in. It is pretty sad when AD is better than the abuse there on the line (true statement!). I am behind you guys. I might not be there, but I have a heck of a lot of friends there that I do care about. I talk with them every day (almost). I do know what is going on from them, not what is posted on this site. I want you guys to get the best possible contract our CNC can muster. If you guys need to strike, so be it. But that is not fair for me to push that on someone else currently working at ASA because I have a good paying job to rely on if the situation deteriorates to unrecoverable levels. If I had voting rights and the MEC asked for a yes vote to strike, I would vote yes if I was back on the line.

 

[HoserASA]

.......Thanks Mark! I thought you knew me better than that.........

Hey, you wrote it! lol

Hoser

 

[FmrFreightDog]

Did anyone else notice that a Relief Line holder will not get paid for cancelation pay! Read closely. There is a lot of stuff like that. It's gonna take me a week to read and reread for all those things.

Not to mention that cancellation is to be paid on a trip by trip basis instead of leg by leg. Unacceptable.

 

[sweptback]

Not to mention that cancellation is to be paid on a trip by trip basis instead of leg by leg. Unacceptable.

I saw that too. There's a ton of these "gotchas". Everybody needs to read all the details and not just skim over it. There's very little of the proposal that is good.

 

[JoeMerchant]

AVOR how many E190's has Delta got on order. None? Uh None????? So even if they have that rate it is a phantom rate since no E190's are on order. How about a rate for the Space Shuttle? No they don't have those on order either!

Bizjet, how about the 15 year USAir pilots who agreed to fly the E170 for $56 hour left seat? That wasn't a "phantom rate". This "phantom union" is great isn't it?

 

[Bizjet]

Bizjet, how about the 15 year USAir pilots who agreed to fly the E170 for $56 hour left seat? That wasn't a "phantom rate". This "phantom union" is great isn't it?

Why don't you resign from the union you have such disdain for?

_______________

JoeMerchant is Latin for: No Integrity
JoeMerchant: Don't Bitch About ALPA when you can't even fulfill your duties as LEC Sec/Treas.
JoeMerchant:ASA management's lap dog.

 

[DrunkIrishman]

Bizjet, how about the 15 year USAir pilots who agreed to fly the E170 for $56 hour left seat? That wasn't a "phantom rate".

Touche'

Why don't you resign from the union you have such disdain for?

Don't be a baby Biz. He throws out a couple of good one's from time to time. You'll have to do better than that next time for a comeback.

 

[Bizjet]

Touche'



Don't be a baby Biz. He throws out a couple of good one's from time to time. You'll have to do better than that next time for a comeback.

Only when Joe starts answering questions and does his job as LEC Sec/Treas. will I entertain the ramblings of a fool.:smash:

Joe is also the leader of the lets join the race to the bottom. He would be the first to call for an under bid of the USAir rates.

________________
JoeMerchant is French for Turn and Run

 

[JoeMerchant]

Why don't you resign from the union you have such disdain for?

It's not disdain Bizjet, rather it is complete lack of faith in anything currently being done by ALPA in terms of collective bargaining or long term strategic planning. In other words, ALPA has no long term strategic plan. I would rather see ALPA fixed. If it can't be fixed, then I will push for leaving ALPA. However the Agency Shop language, which I helped write, doesn't allow me to resign without paying. If I have to pay, I'm going to at least have a say and a vote.

 

[JoeMerchant]

Only when Joe starts answering questions and does his job as LEC Sec/Treas. will I entertain the ramblings of a fool.:smash:

Joe is also the leader of the lets join the race to the bottom. He would be the first to call for an under bid of the USAir rates.

________________
JoeMerchant is French for Turn and Run

I answer questions Bizjet, it's just some people don't like the answers. There is a lot of denial and window dressing coming from ALPA. The only fools are those who actually believe ALPA is looking out for their best interests.

As for the "leader of the lets join the race to the bottom", it isn't me - it's Duane. He is the leader in this race and being compensated very nicely for it. As I have said about the "race to the bottom" - either stop it, or participate. Standing on the sidelines whining about it won't change anything and likely will leave on the sidelines while your "brothers and sisters" take your job.

 

[Pogue Mahone]

I answer questions Bizjet, it's just some people don't like the answers. There is a lot of denial and window dressing coming from ALPA. The only fools are those who actually believe ALPA is looking out for their best interests.

As for the "leader of the lets join the race to the bottom", it isn't me - it's Duane. He is the leader in this race and being compensated very nicely for it. As I have said about the "race to the bottom" - either stop it, or participate. Standing on the sidelines whining about it won't change anything and likely will leave on the sidelines while your "brothers and sisters" take your job.

JOE, ARE YOU GOING TO RUN FOR MEC CHAIR OR NOT???????

 

[JoeMerchant]

JOE, ARE YOU GOING TO RUN FOR MEC CHAIR OR NOT???????

I've already answered this, but I'll answer it again. NO! It would be a waste of time. This problem runs much deeper than changing the MEC Chairman. Hoser needs to read his PM better. I answered him and I have answered others. NO NO NO !!!!!

 

[Pogue Mahone]

I've already answered this, but I'll answer it again. NO! It would be a waste of time. This problem runs much deeper than changing the MEC Chairman. Hoser needs to read his PM better. I answered him and I have answered others. NO NO NO !!!!!

Then, in bullett point format, what is the answer as you see it?

Not rhetorric but a step by step approach to fixing the problems as you see them?

I would like to know.

 

[HoserASA]

I've already answered this, but I'll answer it again. NO! It would be a waste of time. This problem runs much deeper than changing the MEC Chairman. Hoser needs to read his PM better. I answered him and I have answered others. NO NO NO !!!!!

Well, no PMs from YOU in a couple of weeks John. Spinning it again eh? Answer this then. Are you or LJ going to run for LEC in an attempt to put the other up for MEC Chair? And, why does Scott think LJ would be a good choice for MEC Chair? Just questions John. Like you said earlier, I want to hear from both sides. So, tell me here, not in a PM.

Hoser
JoeMerchant for LEC 112! Get ready for it!

 

[~~~^~~~]

Why is this about Joe Merchant? I came here looking for reaction to management's proposal. Stay focused on what matters people.

I think Delta management is smart enough to realize that mainline's predatory bid is simply Delta Express again. The 737-200 rate went up 68% when contract 2000 was TA'd. Delta Express lasted just another couple of months and now that flying is done by Southwest, who now has a large MCO operation. The folks who do not understand what this bid means are the rank and file ASA pilots.

ALPA National is trying to drive down regional costs, as their "preferred members" honestly believe that one reason for their airlines' financial disasters is that RJ's are "too expensive" and that these costs must be cut. Cost cuts on the RJ's are seen as a way to reduce and offset the pay cuts that are being forced at mainline.

In other words, our jobs can be used to supplement mainline pay. The mechanisms to achieve this goal are phantom pay rates and in some places real jets for jobs rates that destroy the bargaining position of regional pilots who would want to restore the profession.

 

[Texx]

I came here looking for reaction to management's proposal.

Per Company Memo 03/03/2006

"The Association repeatedly tells the pilot group that the Company has not made meaningful movement during these nogotiations".

Ah, have I missed something.

JA tells us that DAL told ASA to drag the negotiations out for 3 years. Terry Hayes and Bill Hiers have done that quite well and they are still at the table.

The only "meaningful movement" I have heard about was during the last session of negotiations. I feel the only reason was because Charlie was there and there was a deadline set by the Mediator.

Now Terry is trying to save his skin with Jerry and make it appear that they have been working with us for the last 3 years. It's called "window dressing" and they do not do a very good job at it.

 

[ArcticFlier]

Well, no PMs from YOU in a couple of weeks John. Spinning it again eh? Answer this then. Are you or LJ going to run for LEC in an attempt to put the other up for MEC Chair? And, why does Scott think LJ would be a good choice for MEC Chair? Just questions John. Like you said earlier, I want to hear from both sides. So, tell me here, not in a PM.

Hoser
JoeMerchant for LEC 112! Get ready for it!

Ahhhhhhh..........feelin' the love..................



AF

 

[JoeMerchant]

Well, no PMs from YOU in a couple of weeks John. Spinning it again eh? Answer this then. Are you or LJ going to run for LEC in an attempt to put the other up for MEC Chair? And, why does Scott think LJ would be a good choice for MEC Chair? Just questions John. Like you said earlier, I want to hear from both sides. So, tell me here, not in a PM.

Hoser
JoeMerchant for LEC 112! Get ready for it!

Mark the answer is NO, as I told you in the last PM. Go back and read it if you still have it.

 

[JoeMerchant]

Ahhhhhhh..........feelin' the love..................

AF

That's OK, Bill said I could have my old job back at UFS :>)

 

[ArcticFlier]

That's OK, Bill said I could have my old job back at UFS :>)

LMAO!!!!!!!! Best job we'd ever have!!!!!!!!!!!

Right?

BTW Terry says hi.......don't ask about Nancy........


AF