ASA MCO base

[Long Time Gone]

I don't understand why we aren't flying the -700 on the MCO - EYW - MCO routes. The -200 can't even come close to full out of there, and we're taking the -700 out full to ATL. The only reason I can think of is that the loads don't justify the use of the -700, but the costs of operating the -200 in and out of there can't balance that out.

It's that darn "big picture" thing again......

 

[KickItOut]

after flying out of MCO. For the past 2 days, I saw many ASA managers down here snooping around. The most singnificant I think was the inflight manager. I saw him with a piece of paper that said MCO BASE OPERATION PLAN. We talked to a few of them. They wouldnt give us specifics, just said they were making sure things were going smooth. Yeah right. ASA puts them up for 2 nights pays for their meals just to check it out. I say base announcement coming soon.

 

[cfi_greg]

Let's walk before we fly on this one, shall we?

If we go down there and stink it up, either because we do it wrong, or, because we are 'helped' by other folks that might not want ASA to succeed, I don't see a base. If we go there and plug the hole for the summer season, then maybe, just maybe, something might be discussed.

If this ever happens, I see the base being very senior for captains and VERY junior for FOs.

Pretty much another LA. Have fun with that

 

[crjskipper]

look and see, almost every flight for the first two days left early. must be working.

 

[79%N1]

Won't be a crew base....

Not getting 900's.......

 

[JumpersAway]

Pretty much another LA. Have fun with that

Actually, I disagree. Under the old regime- ABSOLUTELY. However, I am sure that Brad (our competant CEO) isn't going to announce a new crew base until he is sure it sticks. That's probably why it hasn't been done already. It's been stated several times that any future base announcements are going to be for the long haul. I'd have to say that Brad has made good on what he has said so far, so I'm inclined to believe what they say. Besides, it costs ASA cash to relocate crews after openning/shutting down a base. It's expensive to pay for moving costs when you shuffle crewmembers around the country.

Besides, we have an immense amount of folks that commute out of Florida to begin with. I can think of several captains I have flown with in the last year that commute out of Orlando anyway. The F/O crowd will be filled with Daytona Beach Riddle pilots. It's about an hour from there to Orlando anyway. And, as always, there are several members of the ABA (Anywhere But Atlanta) crowd that will step up to the plate.

 

[ASA_Aviator]

Actually, I disagree. Under the old regime- ABSOLUTELY. However, I am sure that Brad (our competant CEO) isn't going to announce a new crew base until he is sure it sticks. That's probably why it hasn't been done already. It's been stated several times that any future base announcements are going to be for the long haul. I'd have to say that Brad has made good on what he has said so far, so I'm inclined to believe what they say. Besides, it costs ASA cash to relocate crews after openning/shutting down a base. It's expensive to pay for moving costs when you shuffle crewmembers around the country.

Besides, we have an immense amount of folks that commute out of Florida to begin with. I can think of several captains I have flown with in the last year that commute out of Orlando anyway. The F/O crowd will be filled with Daytona Beach Riddle pilots. It's about an hour from there to Orlando anyway. And, as always, there are several members of the ABA (Anywhere But Atlanta) crowd that will step up to the plate.

CVG more likely than MCO, but that's just my opinion.

 

[JumpersAway]

CVG more likely than MCO, but that's just my opinion.

True, I'll buy into that.

 

[CFI2766]

Pretty much another LA. Have fun with that

I am actually quite concerned about this.

Whatever is the cheapest for the company is what will be policy. I'm not making a judgment about that fact. However, it would be a fair observation that it would be a difficult position to be in to be a junior FO displaced to MCO if you don't want to go.

 

[spudskier]

Won't be a crew base....

Not getting 900's.......

Yeah, GWB is now a dictator, will never leave office, Stalin is back from the dead, and oh yeah, the sky is falling and just you, ONLY you are getting laid off. Glass is almost empty.

mmmmmmmmmm no. There's a time and place for negativity, with things the way they are and your job being secure, this is probably not one of them. MCO base is up in the air although a possibility as is CVG, I'm pretty positive we'll get another base somewhere, it'll be good for our numbers and morale. 900s, who knows (AND DON'T USE A DANG ' there's no contraction on "900s" and no possession of anything) we'll get more airframes eventually, be it "900's" or 700s or 200s, but we're in a great place

so turn that frown upside down Mr. Bitter.

 

[CFI2766]

Delta gives us the flight numbers they want us to fly. It is up to us how to stitch it all together. 40 min turns are entirely up to crew planing-there are plenty of options better than 6 leg days with no turns greater then 40 mins. That is a screwup we can take complete credit for. This sort of garbage does not help our on-time performance and it has nothing to do with the crews or Delta-only those clowns who glue the flights together using some program which is improperly configured.

-Wait til you start flying this crap before you assert how awesome it is, Joe.

Where in Joe's post did he say it was 'awesome'?

It really seems like a choice here: 40 minute turns and six leg days, or, having someone else do the flying instead of us.

It's not pretty, but if the senior captains that want to bid for that flying want to keep it at ASA, it's up to them to make it work. There's a million crew related reasons why this might not work: a FA drags his/her feet in making an aircraft swap, or, an FO takes his/her sweet time in completing the paperwork, or, a captain delays boarding when it truly isn't necessary. We can control these potential reasons for the flying being taken away. If the ground support isn't there, I feel like the current leadership will make heads roll until the ground support is there. I'm simplifying here, but in the short term, it really does seem to be up to us to make this work.

I think it would be helpful to remember where this flying came from and how it came to be on ASA's schedule.

 

[buscap]

date flight from-to out in block ground time

MO05 4893 ATL-PFN 0911 0920 0109 0025
MO05 4460 PFN-MCO 0945 1155 0110 0035
MO05 4464 MCO-PNS 1230 1300 0130 0025
MO05 4464 PNS-MCO 1325 1550 0125 0025
MO05 4566 MCO-PFN 1615 1630 0115 0025
MO05 4566 PFN-MCO1655 1905 0110

The other days look similar with 25 min turns in MCO. And don't forget, MCO is where we highly motivated pilots will fly our broke-deek airplanes for maintenance, as opposed to writing it up at the outstations. We are good at what we do, but we need and deserve a sound, do-able, schedule and support base to start with.

I would say that is a schedule which is set up to fail.

When and where does the crew eat? Mini meals are designed and sufficient for rare unexpected situations. As far as crews bringing meals, maybe that works for the pilots, who can eat in the cockpit. But the single FA on a 50 seater has no chance to eat with a schedule like that. Let alone, get off the airplane to take a fat hairy crap on a real toilet. Or how about all those "female problems" as my mom called them!!!

I know it's all part of the job, and yeah, I am grateful for the flying, but for pete's sake, give me a workable schedule and support base. Why spend all that money on postioning mechanics and then turn around and build a schedule which will do just as much harm as broke airplanes?

Why would we set ourselves up for failure like this?

Like I said, I just don't get it.

 

[crjskipper]

buscap, its only 4 lines of flying this month, what do you expect. next month there will be at least 8 to 10 lines worth, most lekely with better flows.

its like the cvg comair flying we picked up, some of the turns i have had on the 700 are less than 25 minutes. it works most of the time. looking at the flows most crews do one turn a day in mco, with seldom more than 4 or 5 legs a day. thats doable, especially when the alternative is furloughing cause you have a dozen or more 200's too many.

 

[buscap]

buscap, its only 4 lines of flying this month, what do you expect. next month there will be at least 8 to 10 lines worth, most lekely with better flows.

its like the cvg comair flying we picked up, some of the turns i have had on the 700 are less than 25 minutes. it works most of the time. looking at the flows most crews do one turn a day in mco, with seldom more than 4 or 5 legs a day. thats doable, especially when the alternative is furloughing cause you have a dozen or more 200's too many.

Skipper,

Look at the lines again. There are liens where the entire month is like that. Big fat paycheck is nice, but why try to do this flying this way?

If it's important then let's do it right and support it with maintenance and a workable schedule.

I just don't get it!! We finally get a chance to shine and we set ourselves up for failure with an unworkable schedule. There is no reson for that. I could think of several alternatives.

I'm a flag-pole saluting three bags full kind'a idiot, but I am also the first one to tell the boss his plan stinks.

"I'll try to do it, but just remember, your plan stinks old man!!!"

And you know what Skipper? There is no good reason for those schedules. Cycle another aircraft into it just once a day and the needed cushion is in there.

 

[CFI2766]

date flight from-to out in block ground time

MO05 4893 ATL-PFN 0911 0920 0109 0025
MO05 4460 PFN-MCO 0945 1155 0110 0035
MO05 4464 MCO-PNS 1230 1300 0130 0025
MO05 4464 PNS-MCO 1325 1550 0125 0025
MO05 4566 MCO-PFN 1615 1630 0115 0025
MO05 4566 PFN-MCO1655 1905 0110


Yikes, that really is a pretty challenging schedule. I'm unfamiliar with how the schedules are built and pieced together, but it seems as though that particular line, perhaps others, could have been built better.

I wouldn't be sincere, however, if I didn't point out that there are ATR lines like that or very similar every month. It can be done.

 

[buscap]

Good point, but ATR lines don't do 25-35 minute turns in their hub, which is what MCO is in this case.

And the ATRs have two flight attendants, which makes a huge difference.

And let's not forget ATR pilots are flying gods compared to RJ pilots.

 

[McNugent]

96.4% (A-14) and 87.1% (D-0) for the month so far. Must not be that tough to make the schedule work.

 

[blesko]

They board in MCO like clockwork. If the airplane is on fire, they'll board pax with fire extinguishers in hand. Its quite an operation. Ground power and air avail when you park. Full catering, lav dumps, all without you having to make one single call. All planes are within a few hundred feet of each other in one single hallway. Their operations actually has a clue down there. Its a pretty good deal. Had a 30 min sched ground time last WITH an aircraft swap, and it was VERY easy.

Only forseeable issue would be trying to get some time to grab a quick bite to continue with the day.

 

[JumpersAway]

With that little time between flights, I'd have no problems telling my flight attendant it's ok to eat up front in the airplane. Also, since the F/O doesn't need to do the paperwork anymore, why not chip in and help her with the cabin or make a meal run to get the crew a real meal? With 25 min, it shouldn't be that long for the F/O or Captain to run in and grab food for 3 people.

With 1.3 BILLION dollars in the bank at Skywest INC., ASA needs to prove we can make their investment allocation work. It's like I heard someone discuss- the days of mainline airlines buying airplanes for the regionals to grow are over. The regionals will be forced to buy airplanes now, and Skywest is about the only one that can do this. We (ASA) have to show that any airplanes purchased/given can be used efficiently, or Skywest Airlines will get them all. I believe ExpressJet and RAH are next in line with cash liquidity at a little over 300 million.

 

[CFI2766]

I've just found my new signature...

And let's not forget ATR pilots are flying gods compared to RJ pilots.[/quote]


Seriously, tho: The writing on the wall here is that we do this flying, the way Delta wants this flying to be done, or someone else will. In these times, with the metaphorical storms that are showing up on the radar, it's really up to us keep this flying. Where else will there be 'new' flying?

Now, that's not to say that we can't or shouldn't make whatever adjustments to make the flying more realistic. I just don't think we can tell our employer, DELTA, that it will be done 'our way or no way'.