ASA June lines...is this a joke?

[Lear70]

That's a saying I've heard from many Captains here at AirTran:

"The perfect line is just a phone call away".



Unfortunately, for me, my sick calls have come from genuine problems. Broke my toe falling down the stairs one night, was changing a tire on a car and the jack gave way (with the parking brake set and the car in Park) and the corner of the fender trapped my foot under it (d*mn lucky I didn't break it). Yeah, same foot,,, still aches. Then the colds and crap from having kids once or twice a year.

I don't have any sick time left to use! Glad our lines don't require it.

Good luck to all of you!

 

[SiuDude]

Then the colds and crap from having kids once or twice a year.

Either that was a poorly written sentence, or you're one busy person.

 

[atpcliff]

Hi!

USA Jet is hiring. We currently get 10 hard days every 28. One block of 10, or 2 of 5. EVERYONE on the falcon gets 10 days-seniority is just to bid for the lines.

Most holidays are off, as the assembly lines are shut down. EVERYONE on the falcon, is, most of the time, on reserve with a 25" min callout. Usually you get more time, but it may only be 25".

Starting pay is $33K base. New hires are going to the DC-9 (pay $36K) within 1 year, and upgrade to Falcon capt is 2-3 years (you DO need 3000TT-helo counts). Last Jun, a Falcon FO made $7k.

cliff
YIP

 

[Oakum_Boy]

25 minute call sounds kind of rough but the rest is good.

 

[N813CA]

Comair lines have been that bad or worse since you left the Delta Family.

 

[Lear70]

No offense, Cliff, but I like this one better.

AJX is hiring direct-entry 767 Captains for the ANA feeder, based in Narita. No Boeing time required.

Base pay is $120k a year, plus an extra $10k in 401k with no deposits required from you to match, an extra $6,000 in housing allowance, an extra $12,000 in commuting allowance, and $45 per day in per diem.

You get 14 days off a month, 10 of them are guaranteed to be off in a row.
You know your schedule the month in advance and can regularly get holidays or special days off by request.

You fly one leg a day, then go to the 5-star hotel for 24-28 hours.

If you work it right, $98,000 of that salary can be tax-free. See your tax specialist for details.

So hmmm.... live on pager on 25 minute callout 20 days a month as an F/O, or go to Narita, Hong Kong, Hawaii, etc one leg each day with a fixed schedule making 500% more as a 767 CA?

 

[Texx]

What happened to that FO at ASA who used to make good lines with little complaints from crews.

If your speaking about Kevin W., he never did any work. The crew planners did. His actions from the end of last year, just before he went to a hotel chain, are one of the current problems.

 

[Oakum_Boy]

What actions were those?

 

[Richard Gozinya]

If your speaking about Kevin W., he never did any work. The crew planners did. His actions from the end of last year, just before he went to a hotel chain, are one of the current problems.

OK Texx, Don't be like RP on the ALPA board, give us more.

Dick

 

[sweptback]

OK Texx, Don't be like RP on the ALPA board, give us more.

I think you give RP way too much credit on the ALPA boards...

 

[shamrock]

I think you give RP way too much credit on the ALPA boards...

"I don't know, and I don't give a fcuk!"

Never let the truth get in the way of a good story.

 

[Stifler's Mom]

"I don't know, and I don't give a fcuk!"

Never let the truth get in the way of a good story.

HA HA HA. :laugh:

 

[CoATP]

No offense, Cliff, but I like this one better.

AJX is hiring direct-entry 767 Captains for the ANA feeder, based in Narita. No Boeing time required.

Base pay is $120k a year, plus an extra $10k in 401k with no deposits required from you to match, an extra $6,000 in housing allowance, an extra $12,000 in commuting allowance, and $45 per day in per diem.

You get 14 days off a month, 10 of them are guaranteed to be off in a row.
You know your schedule the month in advance and can regularly get holidays or special days off by request.

You fly one leg a day, then go to the 5-star hotel for 24-28 hours.

If you work it right, $98,000 of that salary can be tax-free. See your tax specialist for details.

So hmmm.... live on pager on 25 minute callout 20 days a month as an F/O, or go to Narita, Hong Kong, Hawaii, etc one leg each day with a fixed schedule making 500% more as a 767 CA?

But raw fish? and its not even the tasty kind.

 

[sweptback]

I just went through the lines, and while the lines suck, most of the pairings are pretty good. There are a lot of 24 hour 4 days and 12-13 hour 2 days, even though there's a total lack of good 3 day trips. If they put all the high-time 4 day trips on the same lines, we could easily have more days off.

Seniority should be worth something around here... as it stands now unless you're in the top 50 or so you'll get 12 days off.

 

[Richard Gozinya]

I think you give RP way too much credit on the ALPA boards...

No credit given at all. He lost me when he said he took down the Crips in Tulsa. Just the I got a secret approach.

What did KW do that left us in this situation?

Dick

 

[Texx]

OK Texx, Don't be like RP on the ALPA board, give us more.

Dick

The current software that we use to build pairings, KW's idea.

And from what it's begining to sound like that if we add many more pairings that this software won't handle it.

 

[sweptback]

I thought we had this problem before and they had to make the lines by hand. Now the new software they bought doesn't even work right?

It amazes me how anybody thinks PBS would be good for the pilot group after hearing something like this.

 

[Richard Gozinya]

The current software that we use to build pairings, KW's idea.

And from what it's begining to sound like that if we add many more pairings that this software won't handle it.

Another short term fix that turns out to be sh1t after the person left. What a revelation. Or maybe it is just a divide and conquer attempt to force PBS.

Thanks Texx!

Dick

 

[rumrnr78]

Just a word on PBS- we have it at FlexJet and it blows. I fly with senior guys who have yet to figure it out. It could be good but in its current configuration at Flex I miss bid lines (but not naps!). Cheers- Rum

 

[Lear70]

Just a word on PBS- we have it at FlexJet and it blows. I fly with senior guys who have yet to figure it out. It could be good but in its current configuration at Flex I miss bid lines (but not naps!). Cheers- Rum

Before the bid lines process, it was WAY more cool there.

Just tell them what days you needed off and, nine times out of 10, you could get it, solid 6 on, 4 off.

Your current system (and chief pilot) blows... you guys need a union BIG TIME.

 

[av8er2]

Real simple, keep it up ASA and pilots will leave. We are sick of 6 and 5 legs with 9 hour overnights. Any job is looking better with that schedule. If you want pilots to leave keep it up, you are doing a great job.

 

[Palerider957]

Real simple, keep it up ASA and pilots will leave. We are sick of 6 and 5 legs with 9 hour overnights. Any job is looking better with that schedule. If you want pilots to leave keep it up, you are doing a great job.

ASA has never cared if employess stay or leave. You are just a number, a unit of production, an expensive evil necessity.

ASA is just a big Burger King, and there are an unlimited supply of teenage workers who will put up with their sh!t for a summer.

 

[Lear70]

In most cases, management is MORE than happy to see senior pilots leave.

It means more low-seniority pilots at lower wages to fly the same airplanes on the same routes.

What was the famous quote from Ornstein? "If you're here longer than 5 years, you're costing me money. What's so screwed up with you that you can't find another job?"

That about sums it up.

 

[Tarzan]

In most cases, management is MORE than happy to see senior pilots leave.

It means more low-seniority pilots at lower wages to fly the same airplanes on the same routes.

What was the famous quote from Ornstein? "If you're here longer than 5 years, you're costing me money. What's so screwed up with you that you can't find another job?"

That about sums it up.

I understood that premise long ago. Oddly enough, regional pilots still believe that the more senior they become, the more valuable to the company. They also believe the company has an incentive to treat them better to retain their services.

Neither are true as far managment sees it. As Lear pointed out, a five year CA can provide the same service and fly the same route as a twenty CA. As pilots, we know the twenty year guy will be more likely to survive if the crap hits the proverbial fan but that is deemed an insignificant risk. The airlines are betting that they can make more money to offset the lawsuit that could occur when one of these one year wonder CA sticks one in the dirt.

I am looking foward to the day when a company has to actually attract and retain pilots.

 

[Texx]

I thought we had this problem before and they had to make the lines by hand. Now the new software they bought doesn't even work right?

It amazes me how anybody thinks PBS would be good for the pilot group after hearing something like this.

No, the new software builds the pairs. Thats why they look sooooooo great!

 

[Texx]

Another short term fix that turns out to be sh1t after the person left. What a revelation. Or maybe it is just a divide and conquer attempt to force PBS.

Thanks Texx!

Dick

Oh it gets better! His brother is now tell the crew planners what the pilots want since he is a pilot. He's been here about 2 1/2 years and flys very little if at all.

 

[Texx]

Real simple, keep it up ASA and pilots will leave. We are sick of 6 and 5 legs with 9 hour overnights. Any job is looking better with that schedule. If you want pilots to leave keep it up, you are doing a great job.

You still haven't figured it out. They don't care!

 

[John Pennekamp]

"The beatings will continue until morale improves".

 

[~~~^~~~]

I understood that premise long ago. Oddly enough, regional pilots still believe that the more senior they become, the more valuable to the company. They also believe the company has an incentive to treat them better to retain their services.

Neither are true as far managment sees it. As Lear pointed out, a five year CA can provide the same service and fly the same route as a twenty CA.

Universally - airline pilots are paid more with experience. There is some reason why a DAL new hire makes $48 and a 12 year Cpt. earns $188. They both can fly the same approaches to the same minimums. They both pass similar check rides. So why the difference?

Judgment - Experience often teaches the "hard way." Employers want thousands of hours of PIC time because there is nothing like the lessons you learn when you are out on your own.

It could be argued that just about every regional airline accident has had some element of "inexperience" in the decisions that were made leading up to the crash. In the case of Comair 5191, if statistical averages hold constant, that single loss will cost somewhere north of Delta's total profits in the last twenty years.

You and I agree that regional management currently sees safety as a "given." The major airline partners do not. The majors' attitudes are much different.