ASA Interviews

[chippy]

Anybody have the latest gouge on ASA interviews

 

[SuperKooter]

I wouldn't waste your time at that airline. Upgrade time is going to swell to 7 or 8 years soon no thanks to Alpa and will probably not hire anyone for a while. I would go to XJT or G0jets.

 

[airksk]

Damn, kooter, anyone ever tell you that NO ONE CARES what you say? I don't post much but even I know it.

 

[Daytonaflyer]

Yeah, I was chatting with an ASA crew in Minneapolis a few weeks ago. The FO had been right seat for about 4 years and when I asked him when he was going to be eligible for upgrade, he said in about 20 years. Fortunately he had a decent salary after 4 years. He claimed about $50K/year, but knowing how some FO's exaggerate their income, it's probably closer to $45K.
Apparently there is absolutely no movement to the captains seat right now, and none in the forseeable future. Unfortunate.
Unless you wanna be at ASA for a career, I would just go to a less desirable regional where you can move to the captains seat in 2 or 3 years. Those are the ones who go onto Southwest, FedEX, Continental, etc.

 

[UHBlackhawk]

Yeah, I was chatting with an ASA crew in Minneapolis a few weeks ago. The FO had been right seat for about 4 years and when I asked him when he was going to be eligible for upgrade, he said in about 20 years. Fortunately he had a decent salary after 4 years. He claimed about $50K/year, but knowing how some FO's exaggerate their income, it's probably closer to $45K.
Apparently there is absolutely no movement to the captains seat right now, and none in the forseeable future. Unfortunate.
Unless you wanna be at ASA for a career, I would just go to a less desirable regional where you can move to the captains seat in 2 or 3 years. Those are the ones who go onto Southwest, FedEX, Continental, etc.

And this is just the problem right now with the regionals. Everyone thinks if they just put in a year or two in the right seat, they will move to the left seat (or as soon as they hit 23, whichever comes first). A year or two in the left seat, and it's off to fly Shamu, or wear purple or brown. Hey, if they work for peanuts for those few years and undercut the pilots at other regionals who are trying to make their company a good place to work, well screw 'em. All for one and all for me. Besides, I screwed up and shelled out $120,000+ for the education for a job that only starts at $20,0000.... sorry, $10,000 a year (after all, I went to Mesaba after all the pilots there quit- but hey, they now have a quick upgrade time.... I hope).
Of course there are probably 200 applicants for every slot at SWA, FedEx, UPS and Cont, so not every one gets to go. Some do, some don't. Some don't for good reasons (Norman Bates' son), some just have bad luck. So this same slop after realizing he/she is at The Slaveship Airline for the long haul, suddenly will want to make more money. Ohhh, but there are pilots at other airlines that will have that same dream and will work for what ever it takes to do so. Those %^&$!!!
Of course this happy merry go round will continue until Pinnacle II- this will be the first RJ crash at some airline with two yahoos flying, a 23 year old with 1575 hours in the left seat saying "DUDE! AIN'T this SWEET!!", and a 19 year old with 250 hours in the right seat sucking his/her thumb, they will screw up by the numbers, maybe even do a seat swap or two while they're at it, but this time there will be 50 passengers in the back. The public will read the CVR tapes and have a cow when they find out the experience level of some of the crews flying them.
Applying to a regional? Apply to them all, then go to the BEST company you can. Upgrades faster elsewhere? They were fastest at ACA when I was getting hired... oops. No longer around. They were also very fast at the time at Cont Exp, and man... Eagle had that FLOW through thingy, so you could be on with AA in just a few years. Oops. Then there were the RJ pilots senior to me who left my airline to work for Midway. WHY would some one go to an airline that had already filed chpt. 11 three times? To get a 737 type rating of course. Oops. Midway put them in the RJ. Oops, 9-11, no more job and they had to use their own money to get home. But hey, my airline gave them a job again when we started hiring... now they are junior to me.

 

[Daytonaflyer]

Well that's a nice point of view, if everybody shared that view, the regionals might be a better segment of this industry but unfortunately it's not a realistic view. If you're going to go the path of regional airline pilot, you have to understand that you're not going to get paid very much for a very long time.
You can stand for what you "think" is the right way to go and sit right seat for 5 or 6 years, probably never breaking $50K/year, and be furloughed once or twice, and hate your job, listening to all your coworkers complain about the company everyday...or you can go to the many less desirable companies and get a quicker upgrade, higher experience level, more money, and a chance to move up in the industry.
It is sad that the regional airlines have come to this, but it IS reality. The regionals are always going to pay around $20K for first year pilots. They are always going to do what is best for the company and the management, not what's best for the pilots.
I have many friends on both ends of the regional airline ladder. The friends at Mesa are already eligible for upgrade in less than two years. Most, in fact, are very happy there and are making about $50K as captain in year 2. The ones at Comair were furloughed in their first 6 months of employment, had to go back to flight instructing, and are probably gonna sit as FO for close to a decade. I won't even get into the guys that are over at Eagle. It is sad, but it is the chosen path of the entire regional industry. The choice is yours.

Oh, and please don't blame the Pinnacle Airlines crash on lack of age or experience. The captain was 31 years old, and had over 6700 hours TT and this was his second airline captain position. He was far from a 23 year old captain with only 1500 hours like the example in the previous post.

 

[UHBlackhawk]

Well that's a nice point of view, if everybody shared that view, the regionals might be a better segment of this industry but unfortunately it's not a realistic view. If you're going to go the path of regional airline pilot, you have to understand that you're not going to get paid very much for a very long time.
You can stand for what you "think" is the right way to go and sit right seat for 5 or 6 years, probably never breaking $50K/year, and be furloughed once or twice, and hate your job, listening to all your coworkers complain about the company everyday...or you can go to the many less desirable companies and get a quicker upgrade, higher experience level, more money, and a chance to move up in the industry.
It is sad that the regional airlines have come to this, but it IS reality. The regionals are always going to pay around $20K for first year pilots. They are always going to do what is best for the company and the management, not what's best for the pilots.
I have many friends on both ends of the regional airline ladder. The friends at Mesa are already eligible for upgrade in only two years. Most, in fact, are very happy there and are making about $50K as captain in year 2. The ones at Comair were furloughed in their first 6 months of employment, had to go back to flight instructing, and are probably gonna sit as FO for close to a decade. I won't even get into the guys that are over at Eagle. It is sad, but it is the chosen path of the entire regional industry. The choice is yours.

You're obviously new to this business, as this is nothing new. In the regionals, or the majors. I know guys who were hired by UAL in the early 70's and told they would be captains in 3 years. They upgraded to FO from FE about 15 years later. I grew up in a Pan Am town, and many a captain had stories of sitting for years in the right seat. Pay was not always that great either. My brother was hired at NWA in 95; 11 years later he is STILL an FO. Can you believe that??? Those jerks have not handed him an upgrade. What really gets him is that he makes as much there as I do as a regional captain. Let's see.... leave my job so I can sit reserve for half my remaining career and not make my salary back for some time, or stay where I am with a nice schedule, but I won't be the richest guy in the neighborhood? No brainer for me.
It is a very recent phenemenon to see 250 hour pilots hired at ANY airline... well, I take it back. Some of the majors were doing that in the 60's. Most pilots paid there dues- flight instructing, flying freight, military, etc. I know when I got hired at my regional every pilot in my class had at least 1500 TT and 250 ME- most of us had over 500 ME. The regionals found that pilots with this much ME were in short supply- so they either had to pay us more, or figure something else out. Thus was born the high school-flight school-regional route. Every kid now has a shot at a regional job that pays diddly.
Yeah, your friends at Mesa may be happy now, but how happy will they be if they don't move on? Will they be happy staying at Mesa the rest of their life? Good advice- every airline job may be your last stop, so choose wisely.
Yeah, there are lots of pilots pissing and moaning about their management. Of course, you have management such as TSA forming GoJet to under cut their already low salaries; Mesaba filing bankruptcy while Mier holdings loots the company and insists first year FOs make $10,000... of course, I never hear FedEx or UPS pilots piss and moan about management.
For those interested in flying careers, there are other routes than the regionals. There is a real shortage of CFIs right now... look at any job board and you will see numerous adds for CFIs. I know of pilots who were hired at FedEx and SWA without ever stepping foot at a regional airline or the military. They were CFIs and freight dogs flying DC-3s, Convairs and Lears. They made decent money and got some very good experience in the process.

 

[Daytonaflyer]

There ya go assuming...I've been in the industry for about 8.5 years, flying for 4+. I'm no veteran, but I'm definitely not new to the industry. I agree with some of what you're saying, but not all of it. And why are you assuming that the career captains at Mesa and certain other regionals are unhappy? The ones I've spoken with seem just as happy as most other regional captains.
Mesa is actually one of the higher paying regionals when it comes to career captain pay. Their career captains are paid better than Comair's, Eagle's, ExpressJet's, and Mesaba's, not to mention a lot of others. Plus they fly more than many other regionals, so they make even more money. Mesa is only low paying for their FO's and turboprop captains, but a turboprop captain has the opportunity to move up to the jet. They are not stuck in the prop for a career.
I understand why FO's complain about the pay at Mesa, but the captains seem quite happy, and when you can make captain in 2 years, that's a pretty good reason to go that route.
I agree with ya on the alternative route, that's what I'm doing. I started as a CFI, some traffic watch, then flew the canyon, now I'm in jet cargo. The pay is decent, the schedule sucks, but it's a faster way to get where I want to be in the industry, I hope.

 

[UHBlackhawk]

There ya go assuming...I've been in the industry for about 8.5 years, flying for 4+. I'm no veteran, but I'm definitely not new to the industry. I agree with some of what you're saying, but not all of it. And why are you assuming that the career captains at Mesa and certain other regionals are unhappy? The ones I've spoken with seem just as happy as most other regional captains.

Yeah, that was a slam and uncalled for. Even a person with one year in the industry has insites at times. Still, 8.5 years- flying for 4 is a blip in the scope of the aviation industry. You need to look at a 15-30 year cycle to see how it moves at times.
Glad your friends are happy at Mesa. That is the key... not the upgrade time, which may change tomorrow.

 

[rightseatjocky]

skywest upgrade in 18 months. Mesa hiring off the street captains, so it gojet.

 

[LSmall]

ASA interview feedback

FLTops.com has the latest interview feedback on ASA. If you would like to see what another pilot experienced during his interview, go to http://www.FLTops.com

Laurain Small
Small@fltops.com

 

[UHBlackhawk]

skywest upgrade in 18 months. Mesa hiring off the street captains, so it gojet.

Again, that is today. Tomorrow.... who knows. Do NOT base your airline just on upgrade times. It changes quickly.

 

[shamrock]

Fortunately he had a decent salary after 4 years. He claimed about $50K/year, but knowing how some FO's exaggerate their income, it's probably closer to $45K.

I've been here about that long and if I make the same for the last 6 months of '06 as I did in the first 6 I'll barely gross $40K for the year. That's averaging about 85-90 hours of pay per month and would include about $4K in per diem, which IMHO shouldn't count.

Edit: I just realized that someone on the 70 might make that kind of $$. I was speaking as a 50 seater pilot. That being said, my schedule is much better on the 50 than that of the guys from my class that are on the 70, so there is a trade off.

 

[Flyguy6]

I am not a professional pilot. But I want to be and I have many airline pilot friends. I have two friends that chose to stay FO's at ASA for 8 years before they just recently became captains. Thy esaid its due to quality of life. They didnt want to upgrade quick and go to the bottom of the senority and that makes sense to me.

So, from what I read here, its asumed that you want to upgrade as soon as possible. Whats wrong with being a senior FO? You get a great schedule and time off. And the pay is good. I dont have to make $200K or 100K. I am fgood with making $50-70K

 

[Daytonaflyer]

Flyguy6,
Your friends were some of the lucky ones; what if Skywest hadn't purchased ASA from Delta last year? You friends would have been furloughed and they wouldn't have any PIC time at all. They wouldn't have been able to get a good job at any airline anywhere. They would have a better chance at working for 7-11 than for a major airline.
What about the thousands of FO's at Independence Airlines that decided to stay there for years and lost their jobs when the airline shut down? If they want to fly for an airline, they will have to go to another regional and start from the very bottom making $20,000. They can't even apply at the major airlines because they don't have the PIC time.
Meanwhile the pilots at other regionals that got quick upgrades are sitting comfortable making $60,000+, and they're getting interviews at the major airlines and with good corporate jobs.
Please don't think that all those guys can go to the fractionals either. The fractionals only hire a certain amount of former airline guys. They want to keep a good mix of pilots in their company, so they hire from all sides of aviation.
What about the guys at Comair who got furloughed and had no income at all? Most of them were low on the seniority list, and probably lower experience guys too. Many of them had to try for flight instructing jobs making $12,000/year because they weren't qualified for anything else. The lucky ones got jobs with other regional airlines making $20,000/year and started at the bottom again.
It's hard enough to feed a family with a salary of $40,000/year, but it's much harder when you get furloughed and that money suddenly becomes $0/year...The list goes on.
The airline industry is so dynamic right now. It is inundated with greedy management and personnel problems; you have to plan for the future, and having captain time is one of the best ways to do that. Plus, if you've been making $60,000 for the last few years as captain, you were probably able to save up money for the hard times. If you've been making $40,000 as an FO, you may not have been able to.
That's just one reason why captain time is so important. Good luck putting two kids through college on $40,000 a year, especially in the future with tuition and the cost of living constantly rising.
Many regional airlines have told their employees for so long that it is important to support the company and stay as FO for the long haul. But when the times get tough, that same company will cut your pay and hire cheaper, less qualified employees at the drop of a hat. There are very few companies that will support their employees in tough times. Skywest is probably the only regional that does that regularly, they have never furloughed a pilot.
Also, while $50,000 as an regional FO is possible, $70,000 is virtually impossible. Staying a career FO is possible, but in the airline industry, it is a dangerous path that might end up biting you in the end.

 

[UHBlackhawk]

Flyguy6,
Your friends were some of the lucky ones; what if Skywest hadn't purchased ASA from Delta last year? You friends would have been furloughed and they wouldn't have any PIC time at all. They wouldn't have been able to get a good job at any airline anywhere. They would have a better chance at working for 7-11 than for a major airline.
What about the thousands of FO's at Independence Airlines that decided to stay there for years and lost their jobs when the airline shut down? If they want to fly for an airline, they will have to go to another regional and start from the very bottom making $20,000. They can't even apply at the major airlines because they don't have the PIC time.
Meanwhile the pilots at other regionals that got quick upgrades are sitting comfortable making $60,000+, and they're getting interviews at the major airlines and with good corporate jobs.
Please don't think that all those guys can go to the fractionals either. The fractionals only hire a certain amount of former airline guys. They want to keep a good mix of pilots in their company, so they hire from all sides of aviation.
What about the guys at Comair who got furloughed and had no income at all? Most of them were low on the seniority list, and probably lower experience guys too. Many of them had to try for flight instructing jobs making $12,000/year because they weren't qualified for anything else. The lucky ones got jobs with other regional airlines making $20,000/year and started at the bottom again.
It's hard enough to feed a family with a salary of $40,000/year, but it's much harder when you get furloughed and that money suddenly becomes $0/year...The list goes on.
The airline industry is so dynamic right now. It is inundated with greedy management and personnel problems; you have to plan for the future, and having captain time is one of the best ways to do that. Plus, if you've been making $60,000 for the last few years as captain, you were probably able to save up money for the hard times. If you've been making $40,000 as an FO, you may not have been able to.
That's just one reason why captain time is so important. Good luck putting two kids through college on $40,000 a year, especially in the future with tuition and the cost of living constantly rising.
Many regional airlines have told their employees for so long that it is important to support the company and stay as FO for the long haul. But when the times get tough, that same company will cut your pay and hire cheaper, less qualified employees at the drop of a hat. There are very few companies that will support their employees in tough times. Skywest is probably the only regional that does that regularly, they have never furloughed a pilot.
Also, while $50,000 as an regional FO is possible, $70,000 is virtually impossible. Staying a career FO is possible, but in the airline industry, it is a dangerous path that might end up biting you in the end.

Everything you list is a reason for picking a well run airline, not necessarily where you will get the fastest upgrade. You can be furloughed at DAL, AAL, UAL, NWA, CAL... again, I use the example of the pilots who left my regional to go to Midway and USAir. Why you would go to airlines that can not make money in a booming economy is beyond me, but they had their sites on bigger and better things. Make sure that rock is solid before you shift your weight. Or the pilots who went to Eagle, Cont Exp and ACA... they had the fastest upgrades when I was hired; Eagle even had the flow through... boy oh boy, a fast track to AAL. Oh well. Then what do you do when the merry go round stops at your regional... jump to another one? That looks VERY bad on a resume if you want to move to a major. Yeah, $40,000/year is not great money if you have kids. But it sure beats $20,000/year if the merry go round has stopped at your airline. And at least you are looking a good wage if you get stuck. Yes, some pilots move on from the regionals, but things happen. Sometimes it's bad luck (you look down at the FMS on short final as a captain and the FO side steps to the taxi way); some times you just get stuck.
If you are picking an airline, look at:
1. The balance sheet
2. The leadership
3. Location (commuting sucks if you have family) but this can change... like from DFW to SLC to ATL in the span of a few years
4. Airline personality (is it like yours?)
5. Pay and benefits
Others can probably think of other things. I would put upgrade time towards the bottom as it changes daily. Upgrade time was running 6-8 years at my airline when I was hired. I upgraded in 18 months. Go figure.

 

[Flyguy6]

I understand what you are saying and I dont neccessariyly disagree, but the presumption is you go to a regiaonal make captain and move to a Major. What about someonelike me who is 37 years old and wil probably be 40 before I get my first flying job. I wil never see a major. The most I can count on is making a career at a regional, so are people like us just disgarded? What should we do?

 

[Flyguy6]

Also, I am currently aPolice officer and I make $40K and live pretty good with that, no I may not be able to put my kids through college, but they can get a job like I did. I cpme from humble means, so I am not accustomed to making or living big so I guess it doesnt affect me