ASA has highest profit margin....

[JoeMerchant]

I'm not sure how you came up with a total cost of $70 million? I think that amount would mean over $41,000 per pilot at ASA...don't see where you got that?!

That was based on the big 700 pay increase we were asking for, the Bfund retirement plan we were asking for, and full backpay for 5 years that we are still asking for, in addition to the other improvements and increases that have already been agreed to. I realize that is only the first year costs, but they are still costs....

Interesting that the Neg. Chairman refuses to disclose the actual dollar amount we are asking for.....

As I said, the total is less now, but it is still higher than your costs, Mesa's costs, PNCL's costs, CHQ's costs and who knows who else. The fact is, we are now competing against one another. It shouldn't be that way, but it is.....

 

[Gr82Aviate]

I would guess that if ALPA had gotten everything it wanted late last year, the total cost to ASA would be somewhere in the neighborhood of 70 Million the first year, which is about what ASA makes. That isn't going to happen.... We have since dropped our big increase in 700 pay, and our Bfund retirement, so the current proposal is probably only about 50 Million first year..... again, not going to happen...



Don't really give a d@mn if you have flown it... the fact is, the ASA 900s are now being flown in ATL by Skywest pilots while you lecture me about what I should do.... Easy for you to say in the cheap seats..... maybe we should just undercut your 900 rates and take the airplanes back....



Quite the contrary my Skywest friend.... the blame doesn't rest on my fellow pilots... it rests on the union that I am forced to pay dues to..... They created the whipsaw and they are not doing anything to end it..... Sounds great to have us all "stand together", but that isn't how ALPA works.... Have you noticed that the USAir MEC is suing the AWA MEC.... there is no "standing together" in ALPA.... it is every man for themself........

Your 50 million figure would come out to an increase of almost $30,000 per pilot...are you sure about your figures?

 

[JoeMerchant]

Your 50 million figure would come out to an increase of almost $30,000 per pilot...are you sure about your figures?

We have pilots expecting backpay checks of $40,000 plus increase in pay, retirement, and QOL.... so yes I am sure about my figures.... Our negotiating chairman won't release the exact numbers which should tell you something....

 

[737 Pylt]

We have pilots expecting backpay checks of $40,000 plus increase in pay, retirement, and QOL.... so yes I am sure about my figures.... Our negotiating chairman won't release the exact numbers which should tell you something....

What, that your rjdc spin is just another lie in the novel life of Joe "ALPA hater" Merchant!

737

 

[WWEfan]

We have pilots expecting backpay checks of $40,000 plus increase in pay, retirement, and QOL.... so yes I am sure about my figures.... Our negotiating chairman won't release the exact numbers which should tell you something....

Joey, if you were at the LEC meeting the other day you would know that what you say is not true. JR was asked for those numbers and he offered to share them with anyone who wanted to go to his office to look at the actual financial assessments. I give him a lot of credit and respect for not blurting out some number off the top of his head that may or may not be accurate.

 

[regionalcap]

That was based on the big 700 pay increase we were asking for, the Bfund retirement plan we were asking for, and full backpay for 5 years that we are still asking for, in addition to the other improvements and increases that have already been agreed to. I realize that is only the first year costs, but they are still costs....

Interesting that the Neg. Chairman refuses to disclose the actual dollar amount we are asking for.....

As I said, the total is less now, but it is still higher than your costs, Mesa's costs, PNCL's costs, CHQ's costs and who knows who else. The fact is, we are now competing against one another. It shouldn't be that way, but it is.....

Look at it the other way around. How much money has ASA saved by not having a new contract over the last 5 years?

 

[Medeco]

And how much money could ASA/Skywest Inc. make if they had a happy motivated work group that took the time to go above and beyond?

ASA has missed out on huge amounts of performance payouts due to not meeting the goals in the DCI agreement with Delta.

Whatta concept!
Medeco

 

[FishandFly]

We have pilots expecting backpay checks of $40,000 plus increase in pay, retirement, and QOL.... so yes I am sure about my figures.... Our negotiating chairman won't release the exact numbers which should tell you something....

Joe, are you a pilot? Your responses seem to be consistently ignorant of any common pilot interest.

When referring to backpay checks, it should make no difference to a pilot that it takes away all of a companies profit for a year.

When you take back an item you didn't need to walmart, according to your philosophy you would be content with the manager refusing to refund your money because it would take away that hours profitability.

Demanding backpay is the only effective way to tell a company that it is not in there best interest to delay a contract.

I'd think hindsight would be 20/20, but then I read your posts and realize that we must have some pilots, albeit a small minority, who have no clue about standing up for themselves.

 

[Tomct]

Joe, you are worthless. All you do is try and stir up "Anti-Alpa" rhetoric. You have totally lost reality. Just how much money has ASA made over the last 5 years? Oh that's right...you don't want to talk about that due to the fact that it cuts into your Flames on ALPA!! I was not at the LEC meeting, but according to friends of mine, the MEC/CNC answered everyone's TOUGH questions. But of course YOU were not there...why was that? Oh Yeah....you are still looking for those meeting minutes that you stole...right!

Do us ALL a FAVOR....Start holding your breathe...we will let you know when to stop!:laugh:

 

[Stifler's Mom]

And how much money could ASA/Skywest Inc. make if they had a happy motivated work group that took the time to go above and beyond?

ASA has missed out on huge amounts of performance payouts due to not meeting the goals in the DCI agreement with Delta.

Whatta concept!
Medeco

Isn't it amazing that since the company can't put a dollar figure on what happy and motivated employees add to the bottom line, they completely disregard it.

(You'd think that the SWA model would be something to aspire to)

 

[VeeOne]

Isn't it amazing that since the company can't put a dollar figure on what happy and motivated employees add to the bottom line, they completely disregard it.

(You'd think that the SWA model would be something to aspire to)

Even SWA isnt' immune to the snafu the legacies have dealt with. It's only a matter of time before they grow to a point where they are no longer the SWA of old, leaving behind a legacy of what once was. It will be interesting to see how much of the "LUV" everyone will feel once the payscale becomes top heavy and the paycuts begin. Just watch, it will happen- it's only a matter of time.

As long as a pilot has a spot on the "cost index", he will never be looked at as an assett to a company.

 

[Tomct]

Even SWA isnt' immune to the snafu the legacies have dealt with. It's only a matter of time before they grow to a point where they are no longer the SWA of old, leaving behind a legacy of what once was. It will be interesting to see how much of the "LUV" everyone will feel once the payscale becomes top heavy and the paycuts begin. Just watch, it will happen- it's only a matter of time.

As long as a pilot has a spot on the "cost index", he will never be looked at as an assett to a company.

Man are you WAAAAAYYYYYY OFF! That is the reason SWA hires only certain people. They know that they ARE an ASSET and will do what needs to be done to help their...notice I said THEIR...company, to do what it takes too keep the company going. Of course, I know that they have a hard time doing it by looking over that HUGE pile of cash they have in the bank. Oh yeah, you might want to KNOW what you are talking about before you start spouting off about a company you OBVIOUSLY know NOTHING about.
FYI...they company philosophy is
1) Employee's
2) Passenger's
3) Stock Holders
Why you say....hmmm, lets think....They KNOW that if you take care of NUMBER 1....2 and 3 will take care of itself. Now go back to sleep before you hurt somebody!

 

[Tarzan]

Man are you WAAAAAYYYYYY OFF! That is the reason SWA hires only certain people. They know that they ARE an ASSET and will do what needs to be done to help their...notice I said THEIR...company, to do what it takes too keep the company going. Of course, I know that they have a hard time doing it by looking over that HUGE pile of cash they have in the bank. Oh yeah, you might want to KNOW what you are talking about before you start spouting off about a company you OBVIOUSLY know NOTHING about.
FYI...they company philosophy is
1) Employee's
2) Passenger's
3) Stock Holders
Why you say....hmmm, lets think....They KNOW that if you take care of NUMBER 1....2 and 3 will take care of itself. Now go back to sleep before you hurt somebody!

Tomct,
How long have been walking this Earth? Have you talked with some of the guys that have been there for a while? The lovefest appears to winding down. OBVIOUSLY, you have taken notice of how business operates. It is heartless and cares about nothing but expanding profit. Profits have not gone hand in hand with the wild growth and now LUV makes money on the basic bread and butter of the outfit in Texas and not much else.

As long as they were expanding and hiring new pilots and had great fuel hedges, everything was just fine. Now, I am not so sure it is going to be the land of milk and honey. How do they continue to justify pay rates that are so much out of line with everyone else? I want to make as much as I possibly can but I have to believe the day is near for them to have trouble.

Just because LUV is your wet dream for job (It's my ideal setup as well) don't go shoot the guy because he understands the market. You don't seem to have a firm grasp on how it works by your past comments. It is a sh1tty thing how this market works.

 

[VeeOne]

Man are you WAAAAAYYYYYY OFF! That is the reason SWA hires only certain people. They know that they ARE an ASSET and will do what needs to be done to help their...notice I said THEIR...company, to do what it takes too keep the company going. Of course, I know that they have a hard time doing it by looking over that HUGE pile of cash they have in the bank. Oh yeah, you might want to KNOW what you are talking about before you start spouting off about a company you OBVIOUSLY know NOTHING about.
FYI...they company philosophy is
1) Employee's
2) Passenger's
3) Stock Holders
Why you say....hmmm, lets think....They KNOW that if you take care of NUMBER 1....2 and 3 will take care of itself. Now go back to sleep before you hurt somebody!

So that I understand you correctly- you believe that even when they start losing money, the company management will NEVER ask for pay concessions because they LUV their employees? I'd be willing to bet you feel that the employees would forfeit 45% of their pay and still be happy to be flying for SWA. Perhaps you also feel that SWA would never get bought out by another airline, and that Herb Keller will always be there to save the airline so they can always be the big, loving, happy family of which you speak. Here's a little reality check for you- the bigger they get, the more it will lose that family feel. Don't kid yourself- it is all about money on both sides of the fence.....for the pilots and the management. Don't get me wrong, SWA is a first class outfit, but when it comes right down to it- so were many of the other airlines out there in the past- does PSA, Piedmont, Eastern, Delta (of old), Hughes Air West. Does this mean anything to you? Probably not.

 

[Gr82Aviate]

So that I understand you correctly- you believe that even when they start losing money, the company management will NEVER ask for pay concessions because they LUV their employees? I'd be willing to bet you feel that the employees would forfeit 45% of their pay and still be happy to be flying for SWA. Perhaps you also feel that SWA would never get bought out by another airline, and that Herb Keller will always be there to save the airline so they can always be the big, loving, happy family of which you speak. Here's a little reality check for you- the bigger they get, the more it will lose that family feel. Don't kid yourself- it is all about money on both sides of the fence.....for the pilots and the management. Don't get me wrong, SWA is a first class outfit, but when it comes right down to it- so were many of the other airlines out there in the past- does PSA, Piedmont, Eastern, Delta (of old), Hughes Air West. Does this mean anything to you? Probably not.

You left out the Western and Air Cal...

 

[Tomct]

So that I understand you correctly- you believe that even when they start losing money, the company management will NEVER ask for pay concessions because they LUV their employees? I'd be willing to bet you feel that the employees would forfeit 45% of their pay and still be happy to be flying for SWA. Perhaps you also feel that SWA would never get bought out by another airline, and that Herb Keller will always be there to save the airline so they can always be the big, loving, happy family of which you speak. Here's a little reality check for you- the bigger they get, the more it will lose that family feel. Don't kid yourself- it is all about money on both sides of the fence.....for the pilots and the management. Don't get me wrong, SWA is a first class outfit, but when it comes right down to it- so were many of the other airlines out there in the past- does PSA, Piedmont, Eastern, Delta (of old), Hughes Air West. Does this mean anything to you? Probably not.

First off..It is Herb Kelleher, not Keller. And it was Colleen Barrett (Herb's Secretary...become President) that was responsible for the LUV around SWA. The other error you are making....putting SWA mgmnt in line with all other airline mgmnt teams. That's like comparing apples and oranges. SWA's mgmnt team plays an offensive game...notice I said OFFENSIVE, they are thinking way ahead unlike most other mgmnt teams; NOT Defensive like all of the other mgmnt teams. People have been saying that SWA will go away and that things will get worse.....well 50 plus BLACK quarters shows a pretty good history for them to be where they need to be to continue on the right course. After 9/11, the pilots all VOLUNTEERED to take paycuts if it would keep the company from furloughing any pilots....what did they do....the mgmnt team said lets see what happens. What would other mgmnt teams have done? Taken the money, even though they could have done without the paycuts. See the difference? Maybe NOT! We will see, but I will bet that SWA will be around a long time.

Easter...run into the ground by GREEDY mgmnt!
Hughes Air West...(loved them) owned by a "mad man" that was loosing his marbles.
Delta (of Ole) was actually considered a REGIONAL!
Piedmont...good airline, but small.
Western...LOVED THEM, wish they were still here, but unfortunately, their mgmnt ran them into the ground as well. Grindstein came in to make them more lean and appetizing for Delta to buy them and their routes. One of the bad moves...Ma Delta thought that all the money was back east and cut Western's routes to shreds! What happened? Alaska, AWA and SWA really came on the map.
Air Cal...I believe was swallowed up by American!
Any other questions there smart guy? Didn't think so! Back to sleep!imp:

 

[VeeOne]

First off..It is Herb Kelleher, not Keller. And it was Colleen Barrett (Herb's Secretary...become President) that was responsible for the LUV around SWA. The other error you are making....putting SWA mgmnt in line with all other airline mgmnt teams. That's like comparing apples and oranges. SWA's mgmnt team plays an offensive game...notice I said OFFENSIVE, they are thinking way ahead unlike most other mgmnt teams; NOT Defensive like all of the other mgmnt teams. People have been saying that SWA will go away and that things will get worse.....well 50 plus BLACK quarters shows a pretty good history for them to be where they need to be to continue on the right course. After 9/11, the pilots all VOLUNTEERED to take paycuts if it would keep the company from furloughing any pilots....what did they do....the mgmnt team said lets see what happens. What would other mgmnt teams have done? Taken the money, even though they could have done without the paycuts. See the difference? Maybe NOT! We will see, but I will bet that SWA will be around a long time.

Easter...run into the ground by GREEDY mgmnt!
Hughes Air West...(loved them) owned by a "mad man" that was loosing his marbles.
Delta (of Ole) was actually considered a REGIONAL!
Piedmont...good airline, but small.
Western...LOVED THEM, wish they were still here, but unfortunately, their mgmnt ran them into the ground as well. Grindstein came in to make them more lean and appetizing for Delta to buy them and their routes. One of the bad moves...Ma Delta thought that all the money was back east and cut Western's routes to shreds! What happened? Alaska, AWA and SWA really came on the map.
Air Cal...I believe was swallowed up by American!
Any other questions there smart guy? Didn't think so! Back to sleep!imp:

I'm through arguing with you about SWA and your percieved invincible view of them. Right now they ARE a great airline with great people, but I'd rather sit back and let history work it's magic on the issue. I don't really have to say anything else, all I have to do is watch in order to prove my point. The more I talk with you on this thing, the more I see you have absolutely NO CLUE what you are talking about.

And thanks for the synopsis on what happened to the airlines I mentioned prior. By the way, SWA could be one of the airlines to get snapped up........

 

[John Pennekamp]

I would guess that if ALPA had gotten everything it wanted late last year, the total cost to ASA would be somewhere in the neighborhood of 70 Million the first year, which is about what ASA makes. That isn't going to happen.... We have since dropped our big increase in 700 pay, and our Bfund retirement, so the current proposal is probably only about 50 Million first year..... again, not going to happen...

We have pilots expecting backpay checks of $40,000 plus increase in pay, retirement, and QOL.... so yes I am sure about my figures.... Our negotiating chairman won't release the exact numbers which should tell you something....

According to JR, the CNC Chairman, the yearly cost of the total package ALPA is asking for is about $10.5 million. He estimates retro pay/signing bonus (some negotiated number less than 100%, mind you) as a $25 million one time hit. This makes the first year cost about $35 million, then about $10.5 for the next two years. That's a grand total of $55 million spread over 3 years. Or really spread over 8 years if you count the last 5 we have been negotiating without raises, and the company's labor costs have been fixed.

You should have come to the meeting.

 

[Tomct]

I'm through arguing with you about SWA and your percieved invincible view of them. Right now they ARE a great airline with great people, but I'd rather sit back and let history work it's magic on the issue. I don't really have to say anything else, all I have to do is watch in order to prove my point. The more I talk with you on this thing, the more I see you have absolutely NO CLUE what you are talking about.

And thanks for the synopsis on what happened to the airlines I mentioned prior. By the way, SWA could be one of the airlines to get snapped up........

Doubt SWA will be snapped up! By the way...which history, the continuous profitable quarters or what? We will see!