ASA: Growth or Contract?

[FL990]

FL990, I believe that you are a managment plant on this board trying to calm everyone down. I think this pilot group is just starting to get riled up enough and you are trying to get us to "simmah down now!!" I hope I'm wrong-but something smells fishy.

TEDDY,

Have you read any of my posts....cause I don't think ya have. Do you think that a management plant is going to sit and try to get all the pilots in Alpa to come together and act as one big group....is that what you think they want....CAUSE THATS WHAT I HAVE BEEN TRYING TO SAY!!!!!!! WAKE UP! All our pissing and moaning and whining and complaining COSTS THEM NOTHING!!! NOTHING!!! MORALE, until it starts to cost them money, why should they care? They know that as soon as we get our contract, the wounds will heal quickly, so until it costs them more to deal with our antics than it would to just give in and give us what we want, they will deal with our antics. But you, you are so typical...lots of emotion, little ration....YOU MUST THINK RATIONALLY. Management will listen to us and negotiate when it costs them less to do so. There position does not exist to facilitate our pocket books...they are there to maximize wealth for the "shareholders" who in this case, is Delta.

That is why I have been harping and ranting about leverage all over this entire message board...we must get something they want in order to give it up to get what we want....this is how negotiation works, because we can't go in and ask for what we want just on the basis....."why should we give it to you pilots....WELL, because we just want it . Management knows this and that is why they are doing there part for the company. As soon as we get something to offer them in return (ie. threat of work stopage) they will start to cooperate.

So yes: "simmah down now!!" as you put it so well and THINK! Lets put our heads together....ALL OF US...cause thats where our power comes from!!

 

[701EV]

Ted Striker,

I stand corrected, your right Chuck Tickeltoe runs the show. I don't know what I was thinking. We dont have Chucks attention. Here are yesterdays numbers. Does anyone else see a problem?


11/18 Ops Summary

Metric Actual Goal

Completion 96.5 98.0

D-0 75.5 61.1

A-15 82.4 81.1

Bag Claims 0.1/1k 8.0/1k

Load Factor 77.2

701EV

 

[Varmint]

Ted Striker,

I stand corrected, your right Chuck Tickeltoe runs the show. I don't know what I was thinking. We dont have Chucks attention. Here are yesterdays numbers. Does anyone else see a problem?


11/18 Ops Summary

Metric Actual Goal

Completion 96.5 98.0

D-0 75.5 61.1

A-15 82.4 81.1

Bag Claims 0.1/1k 8.0/1k

Load Factor 77.2

701EV

In short, NO. When the NMB releases us to strike, I will strike. When we do informational picketing, I will be holding a sign along with everyone else. Other than that, I am not doing anything different from my norm. I get on the aircraft 45 min prior to departure and make NO radio calls...just sit and wait for the departure coordinator to let him know what I need. Any type of self-help agenda is not worth our jobs. This is cut-throat and I think the guys running the show this time are a little more serious and savvy about things than George and John were. Be careful out there.

 

[Sinca3]

Negotiations

Actually Chuck is just a pawn to ASA's lawyer...forgot his name. This A-Hole is who runs the negotiation sessions for the company.
Cheers

 

[601Pilot]

Ted Striker,

I stand corrected, your right Chuck Tickeltoe runs the show. I don't know what I was thinking. We dont have Chucks attention. Here are yesterdays numbers. Does anyone else see a problem?


11/18 Ops Summary

Metric Actual Goal

Completion 96.5 98.0

D-0 75.5 61.1

A-15 82.4 81.1

Bag Claims 0.1/1k 8.0/1k

Load Factor 77.2

701EV

Yes, I see a problem. Our "goal" for D-0 is 61.1%; it is pretty pathetic that 61% is our goal!

 

[dfw700guy]

Yes I believe Horizon does get just block hours ---THEY are making alot more that you and I--airlinepilotpay.com--if they can afford it so can ASA and more 401k match!!!

WHEN do we start INFO. PICKETING--what are we waiting on..

CO. Express did get FULL RETRO PAY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! A MUST!!!!!!!!!!!!
If not they got 2-3 years for free....

 

[dfw700guy]

Let us stop using Sept 11th as an excuse to give it all away. Horizon did sign their contract prior to Sept 2001. Still, today, with those very pay rates Horizon air is posting quarterly profits and Horizon does not get a gaurentee of profits for every departure as expressjet does. Additionally Express Jet is a MUCH larger carier and should be able to negotiate competative pay. point is...If Horizon makes profits with their current contracts it is fare to say Express Jet could match pay and best it with their considerable procing power considering their massive size.

Now, I will be first to tell you Horizons contract has serious grey in the work rules but still the min days off is 13 per 5 week bid and offers 4 weeks of paid vacation (that is 4 weeks a year to bid...actual acrual is closer to 5 depending on bidding ability). So Horizon also has a minimum of nearly 3 months off a year 1 third of which is paid......

 

[Oakum_Boy]

Actually Chuck is just a pawn to ASA's lawyer...forgot his name. This A-Hole is who runs the negotiation sessions for the company.
Cheers

Well that's not surprising. The ones who should be negotiating don't have any education anyway, so this is what they're left with- a sleazy lawyer to figure out how to F us, because they can't do a good enough job of it.

 

[Ted Striker]

TEDDY,

Have you read any of my posts....cause I don't think ya have.

Teddy, that's sweet. I have read your posts and that is what drew me to my earlier conclusion. To suggest that ASA management was conducting good business practices and being smart negotiators is beyond laughable. Sounds like standard airline management BS to me, in case you missed my Harvard MBA reference (not at this airline, I suppose). As far as putting our heads together and figuring out what we can do: not much to do except wait for the strike vote, then send them a big, loud, unified message. Until then, fly the contract. Nothing more, nothing less. Be safe.

 

[FL990]

Teddy, that's sweet. I have read your posts and that is what drew me to my earlier conclusion. To suggest that ASA management was conducting good business practices and being smart negotiators is beyond laughable. Sounds like standard airline management BS to me, in case you missed my Harvard MBA reference (not at this airline, I suppose). As far as putting our heads together and figuring out what we can do: not much to do except wait for the strike vote, then send them a big, loud, unified message. Until then, fly the contract. Nothing more, nothing less. Be safe.

Exactly, fly the contract. But we need everyone to do this. Hopefully, as we finish off the year and get into next year, more and more pilots will start to follow suite on this one.

 

[BlackCoffee]

Any word on when a strike vote will be issued?

 

[79%N1]

My guess..........Nov 2008, and it probably wont pass!!!!

 

[601Pilot]

My guess..........Nov 2008, and it probably wont pass!!!!

D@mn, I hope not! I was hoping for January 2005!

Send out the ballots!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[Palerider957]

Send out the ballots!!!!!!!!!!!

Amen brother, praise the Lord and pass the ammunition.....

 

[Freebrd]

ALPA approved I believe $2 million for strike preparedness, family awareness, and other programs. Look for informational picketing before the end of this year. Then will be the time to quit whining on this and other boards and participate to show the company we are serious about completing this process with the end result a fair contract. PARTICIPATE is the word folks. We need ALL to PARTICIPATE.

Continenental Express and Eagle have recently enhanced their contracts, and now it is our turn. Fly safe and by the contract.

 

[~~~^~~~]

Do you think for a second ALPA national would support ASA in a strike that would put their favored members at Delta out of work?

 

[737 Pylt]

Do you think for a second ALPA national would support ASA in a strike that would put their favored members at Delta out of work?

Oh Brother, not again! Remember fins. Everyone at Delta is out to get you. Not just ASA, but you personally! Give it a rest!
737

 

[CF34-3B1]

Do you think for a second ALPA national would support ASA in a strike that would put their favored members at Delta out of work?

Personally, I think they will support us. They already are really.

Duane and the Herndon mafia may be lying, 3 faced rectal pollups, but they aren't stupid. I think they understand the mood of our pilot group (better than the Virginia Ave mafia does, certainly)

If they make it clear they won't suppot a strike here, that may be exactly the straw that's needed to ensure a strike.

The vast majority of this pilot group could replace their income selling cars or managing a Burger King. If the perception becomes that not only is management out to maintain the status quo, but so is ALPA, I think a lot of our guys will just become resigned to shutting the place down.

 

[BlackCoffee]

It is time to send the vote out. It set a message to Express jet. Shutting down ops Atl scares Mgt more than you think. For a **CENSORED****CENSORED****CENSORED****CENSORED** $7 raise to match Comair I doubt they would let you guys walk.

 

[~~~^~~~]

These numbers tell the story.

http://finance.yahoo.com/q/ks?s=DAL

 

[michael707767]

Personally, I think they will support us. They already are really.

I think the Delta pilots would support ASA. CMR is another thing though.

 

[CF34-3B1]

I think the Delta pilots would support ASA. CMR is another thing though.

Do you mean you don't think the CMR pilots would support ASA in a strike? Or that the DAL pilots wouldn't support CMR if they were to strike again?

 

[D. Bedson]

Growth vs Contract

Sounds like everybody on here is in favor of a better contract over continued growth. If that's what you want then that's exactly what you'll get.

There is no problem sending all future orders of DCI aircraft to CHQ or other carriers. Their pilots would be more than happy to fly those airplanes and make money for DCI if the ASA pilot group doesn't want to.

 

[Sinca3]

Bedson

12345

 

[Palerider957]

Sounds like everybody on here is in favor of a better contract over continued growth. If that's what you want then that's exactly what you'll get.

There is no problem sending all future orders of DCI aircraft to CHQ or other carriers. Their pilots would be more than happy to fly those airplanes and make money for DCI if the ASA pilot group doesn't want to.

This is NOT Drew...look at the profile, it says CL-65. I think Drew only did some ferry flights in the ATR-72 for ASA. I am pretty sure he is NOT CL-65 qualified.

F.uck off nimrod....

 

[Sinca3]

I edited my post b/c it is my first stupid post in over 5 yrs of being on this site. But why would you defend him?

 

[sweptback]

This is NOT Drew...look at the profile, it says CL-65. I think Drew only did some ferry flights in the ATR-72 for ASA. I am pretty sure he is NOT CL-65 qualified.

F.uck off nimrod....

Yes, because not only would DB post comments on this board, but he would also do it under his own name, and also make sure his profile was correct.

 

[ifly4food]

So are you Bow Peep or the Little Sheep? Because by the way YOU talk, you are obviously a follower and not a leader or someone who can conjure up his own thought process.

I am not saying that we should fold and just take what we have. I am saying that we need to come up with reasons why management should give it to us. I am going to post something on this board that I posted on another:

I agree that management takes advantage of the pilot groups in many ways...but instead of whinning and complaining all the time, we need to all (EVERYONE...ALL ALPA PILOTS) put our heads together and come up with a way to get the upper hand......because right now, its like we are walking into a gun fight with a water pistol and telling everyone to drop there weapons...and actually expecting them too and getting mad cause they won't. Negotiations don't work this way. YOU MUST HAVE LEVERAGE!! Unfortunately, we as pilots don't have enough to get what we want at this time. For us at ASA, a strike is unlikely...Bush has said it won't happen on his watch...that takes away an enormous amount of leverage right away and the company knows this. Yes, we can hold strickly to policies, write everything up....etc etc, but this only goes so far if its just one group doing it.....But if ALL OF DELTA does it...thats another story...

When we all come together as one voice, then and only then will we have the leverage to get what we want. Right now, we're going strap with a pump action WATER GUN!!!

: OK, now that you have read that, do you still think I'm management? Does that sound like something management would say? Think about this...put yourself in managements shoes for just one second. If you were in there place, why give us what we want. What threat do we offer them that they must try and avoid. In baseball, Derik Jeter gets paid what he does because of the fear that he might leave and go to another team...we don't have that threat because they don't care. The only threat that we have is as a UNION and a true union is everyone, not just ASA, or Comair as individuals, BUT EVERYONE, and to top it all of, they use our own competition between each other in the union as THEIR LEVERAGE...look at what the flight attendants are trying to do...THATS A UNION!

I am neither LBP, the sheep nor Jo Momma. I am quite experienced in leadership and have excellent critical thinking skills..

Why do you have so much inside knowledge and "negotiating experience"? By your own admission, that narrows your identity to a handful of possible people, half of who work on the ALPA side. You don't work for ALPA...

 

[FL990]

Why do you have so much inside knowledge and "negotiating experience"? By your own admission, that narrows your identity to a handful of possible people, half of who work on the ALPA side. You don't work for ALPA...

Ya caught me....ya caught the "TATOR"!

 

[ifly4food]

Ya caught me....ya caught the "TATOR"!

Huh? ok.....