ASA...Furloughs?

[btflyer2]

Hanging onto a piece of driftwood . .

For someone in the pool, reading this thread has been gut wrenching.

rjcap, if you have heard talk of a new hire class in late 03, or when the EMB guys have retrained, when do you think that will be? Or anyone familiar with the info in the August prelims or in the retraining process, what classes are running and how many are left?

Do you think they will wait until all the retraining is done, all the way through IOE, or begin a new hire class as soon as the EMB guys are out of class and starting IOE????

So many questions . . . so few (definite) answers!!!!

 

[Beavis]

I hate to say it, but I think that you may need a raft! I am expecting to be furloughed, or at best go back to reserve for a loooong time. You have to look at the plain facts. Whatever the reason, contract negotiations, financing, etc.. if ASA does not expand its flying in DFW of increase in ATL, we have an over abundance of pilots now. With the loss of the EMB120's, and no additional flying to overcome this, there are just too many pilots now. This is a raw deal, especially when you see Delta keep pumping up Chatauqua and SkyWest right under our noses. The promised spectacular growth did not come about, and now were all stuck in a bad spot.

Good luck to all you swimmers. If I were in your shoes, I would try Comair or Chat or SkyWest. It may be a longer wait than you hoped.

 

[sleepy]

I hate to say it, but I think that you may need a raft! I am expecting to be furloughed, or at best go back to reserve for a loooong time. You have to look at the plain facts. Whatever the reason, contract negotiations, financing, etc.. if ASA does not expand its flying in DFW of increase in ATL, we have an over abundance of pilots now. With the loss of the EMB120's, and no additional flying to overcome this, there are just too many pilots now. This is a raw deal, especially when you see Delta keep pumping up Chatauqua and SkyWest right under our noses. The promised spectacular growth did not come about, and now were all stuck in a bad spot.

Good luck to all you swimmers. If I were in your shoes, I would try Comair or Chat or SkyWest. It may be a longer wait than you hoped.

ASA has never been very good at managing the size of it's pilot force. It's not really their fault, they just react to what DAL tells them to do. I guess furloughs could be possible. A while back I was hearing a lot of furlough talk, but it never happened.

If we do furlough pilots, it will probably backfire on ASA. They would immediately have a pilot shortage. They would spend insane amounts of money on retraining costs, then suddenly need to hire a bunch of pilots. A short time later, they will have too many pilots on reserve.

What if the Chit pilots strike? Would reducing the size of the ASA pilot force now be a good idea with that on the horizon?

Skip wants to get our contract settled quickly (which is probably one of the reasons Mr. Young is gone), so how would a furlough now help the IBB process? I think the response to a furlough would be a rather nasty campaign of maintenance write-ups.

 

[DrunkIrishman]

I went from holding a nap line (stand-up, high speed) in May to reserve in June due to the in-flux of senior E-120 guys...I flew every day but two that I was on reserve. From what I hear, the other reserves did the same...pilot surplus?

 

[PROFLYER]

Irishman,

In July, there are 135 RJ FO's in DFW. When the EMB guys finish training (probably October/November) there will be over 240. Unless the DFW RJ lines double (from the current 108), I'd say we'll have a surplus.

 

[SquirrelDog]

Frust8td

"So, retiring the E-120 was a great idea because 'why' again?"

Everyone else is doing it with the props, why not ASA too. The way of the industry, no regional is protected. Better watch out, Gulfstream guys/gals will be flying the routes in props while ASA pilots are on the streets...

Squirreldog

Living the Dream!

 

[701EV]

Everbody calm down and take a deep breath!

This is right from Skip's mouth on the 6/26/03 Captain's Leadership Class.

"Their will be NO furloughs"

"Yes he is proud of the fact that we will not furlough"

"16 CRJ-700s next year plus some CRJ-200s.

"ASA 31 CRJ-700s and Comair 29CRJ-700s"

"Hire 150 pilots for 2004 starting after January"

"RVSM certification is coming, it's mandatory by the end of 2004"

" ACARS is on the self for now due to the 600 milloin dollar cost. Big D is holding on to the cash. It is in the plan and when it comes so will the other FMS head. The Collins 4200 is ACARS capable"

Skip told this to 36 people.

I hope this clears things up.

701EV

 

[sleepy]

So will the cost of RVSM eliminate the threat from B-1900 operaters like Gulfstream? Not to mention the change in pax weights.

 

[jegermeister]

I haven't seen it mentioned, but we do have a little over 100 people on military leave. Granted they're coming back, but for now that has to be helping until we get those deliveries this Fall.

 

[e120pilot]

Hey 701EV, that's good to hear Skip is saying no furloughs, but most of us have heard this stuff before. When I was hired, we were told we would be Brasillia captains in less than 6 months (RJ Captain in 2 years), 3 RJ's a month would be coming for the next couple years, and that we would be hiring 100 pilots per month. Well, I've been here over 2 years and not one thing we were told came true. Instead I've spent most of my time on reserve at the bottom of the list.

Many of the things listed above are either incorrect or should be breaking news. Comair and ASA have 58 CRJ-700's on order (not the 60 that you said-ASA is getting 31, Comair is getting 27). Not a big deal, but that's right from the Bombardier and Delta websites. That's also news to me that we're getting some CRJ-200's in 2004. According to Delta's annual report, there are no firm orders for ASA or Comair for CRJ-200's in 2004. If some options have been exercised, I would think that would be announced somewhere. Hopefully, there is something in the works, but I'm not holding my breath.

 

[sleepy]

Hey 701EV, that's good to hear Skip is saying no furloughs, but most of us have heard this stuff before. When I was hired, we were told we would be Brasillia captains in less than 6 months (RJ Captain in 2 years), 3 RJ's a month would be coming for the next couple years, and that we would be hiring 100 pilots per month. Well, I've been here over 2 years and not one thing we were told came true. Instead I've spent most of my time on reserve at the bottom of the list.

Many of the things listed above are either incorrect or should be breaking news. Comair and ASA have 58 CRJ-700's on order (not the 60 that you said-ASA is getting 31, Comair is getting 27). Not a big deal, but that's right from the Bombardier and Delta websites. That's also news to me that we're getting some CRJ-200's in 2004. According to Delta's annual report, there are no firm orders for ASA or Comair for CRJ-200's in 2004. If some options have been exercised, I would think that would be announced somewhere. Hopefully, there is something in the works, but I'm not holding my breath.

Wow, we were told the same things when I was a new-hire. Do you think the company lied to us?

 

[ATR-DRIVR]

can u say 'negotiations'.....?

 

[General Lee]

You guys might get more planes (if Dalpa agrees to more that is...) if you fly them all (even the 70 seaters) at Brasilia rates.....

Let's see if you can beat Skywest's deal. Skip and Fred Butrell are counting on you to bring the bar down even lower.

Bye Bye--General Lee

 

[ATR-DRIVR]

what possible reason would you post that for? especially as YOU are opening 'talks'.

 

[Beavis]

Gen Lee...You have got to be the worlds biggest a$$h0le!! I stand by that. You are arrogant, eletist, clueless, nosy and kind of creepy! If you would like to discuss it further, PM me and I will give you my phone number, so I can find out what make you such a d!ck.

 

[Beavis]

Gen Lee. You have got to be the worlds biggest a-hole! You are arrogant, eletist, nosy, and downright creepy. If you would like, PM me so I can discuss with you why you are such a d!ck. You single handedly create so much animosity between these pilot groups. Your comments are a cancer.....

 

[Beavis]

Gen Lee. You have got to be the worlds biggest a-h0le! You are arrogant, eletist, nosy, and downright creepy. Your comments singlehandedly cause such friction between the pilot group, they are a cancer!

 

[General Lee]

ATRdrivr and Beavis,

I was joking. Jeez. Couldn't you guys see the sarcasim in that? You guys are on edge big time. And, yes we are opening negotiations right now, but our rates are so much higher compared to UAL and AA that a 10% paycut (maybe 15%--but Dalpa has said that is it) will still allow us to be 20% higher than anyone else. Also, we are not giving this away for free, with a snapback or contract extension as a minimum. We also stated that there must be shared concessions with the other Delta employees including management. We did not give away the farm like some other airlines, primarily because we are not like other airlines---we did not lose aircraft during 9-11, we did not buy TWA, etc. Take some chill pills guys and re-read my post. Relax. Breathe in, breathe out.

Bye Bye--General Lee

 

[rogerroger]

whatever

hey general lee, i am assuming you work for delta right. how do you feel about taking that 4 or 5 % pay raise a month or so ago when every one else in the industry is taking pay cuts. just curious.

 

[General Lee]

rogerroger,

What do you mean? We are currently talking with the company about potential cuts. But, as I have stated earlier, we are not in the exact same shape as the other Majors. We did not (Thank God) lose any airplanes on 9-11, nor did we buy a carrier like TWA that had lots of debt. We also are the only employee group at Delta with a contract and a union. That means we are entitled to negotiate for pay cuts or pay raises etc. The other groups can get pay cuts put on them without input, and that is because they didn't have the intestinal fortitude to pay some dues and get a union. But, we know that our airline has some problems ahead, mainly the $1 billion debt payment due in 2005. We see that and will chip in, but not only us. Management has yet to ask the other groups for money, which ofcourse is probably on the way. And, if things get better in two years, can we have some of that back? You bet. We will negotiate snapbacks or major contract extensions to preserve what we have. Those recent raises were part of the contract, and probably will be recinded, but they were in there. So, to sum it all up, we are not in the same boat as AA and UAL, but we recognize a problem and will help, but for a price.

Bye Bye--General Lee