ASA fix section 24.. NO SENORITY

[av8tor4239]

Seriously,

What is this job without senority? We might as well be flipping burgers, especially for the pay. I like flying, but a McDonalds Manager makes more than a 3rd year FO at any Regional, including comair before and after thier concessions.

If you are confused what I am refering to:

Section 24 filling of vacancies needs some major work.. There is language in the contract in section 24 that allows the company to bypass a first officer for the same paying equipment (ATR/CR2) for ever. Then it allows the companly to bypass a person for a higher paying airplane but has to pay protect that bypassed person. BUT there was a mediation that the company only had to pay protect a bypassed person on a ONE FOR ONE basis.. This means that if there are 10 FO's, ATR and CR2 that have their bid in for the CRJ 700, and they those 10 fo's are bypassed by a newhire.. only the most sr of the 10 atr and cr2 fo's will get pay protected.. the other 9 are screwed..

The system in place in Section 24 of our contract completley throws Senority out the window.

I have been on the ATR for 2.5 years and have been on reserve for 2.5 years. I have had my bid in for the Cr2 and cr7 for 9 months and been bypassed by over 200 newhires and current pilots jr to me.

Even though this section and clause might not be effecting you right now like it is to me, if you let this section of the contract stand for another 4 years in a new TA, you might find yourself in my positoin in the future.

I will never understand the airlines out there that operate without Senority, or the corportate outfits that dont have Senority.. there have been a few guys from ASA go to OMNI International, they upgrade on a merit system, not by Senority. So if you kiss enough a$$ you get to be a captain.. I dont get it..

ASA PILOTS.. FIX SECTION 24

 

[711-24-7]

I totally agree. They really need to fix it because I am sitting here on reserve while these new hires under me are getting an awsome lines that pay them more than gurantee which by all means good for them. But I am just about tired of being SCHD. B1&ch and I have been on reserve for almost a year now and they just keep on by passing me. What kind of System is this???????????? Where on RJ I can hold nice back to back two days or 4 on 3 off line. with more than gurantee and more than just min days off.

 

[MetroSheriff]

I totally agree. They really need to fix it because I am sitting here on reserve while these new hires under me are getting an awsome lines that pay them more than gurantee which by all means good for them. But I am just about tired of being SCHD. B1&ch and I have been on reserve for almost a year now and they just keep on by passing me. What kind of System is this???????????? Where on RJ I can hold nice back to back two days or 4 on 3 off line. with more than gurantee and more than just min days off.

Was that English???


"All your base are belong to us...."

 

[711-24-7]

You have nothing better to do than comment on someone's English. Oh wait you are pro Texas, you have nothing better to do. I think my English is better than George duba's English. Considering I just learned it not too long a go. And I thought this was an aviation board not correct grammer and English board. And FAR's require you to read, write and speak English not proper grammer.

 

[FL000]

I don't care about your English, but you're acting as though you are the only person at ASA who has gotten the contract-endorsed shaft. We've all taken a bite of the fecal focaccia. If what you're complaining about is anti-contractual, grieve it. If it's not...sorry man. Suck it up. That's the industry. It ain't fair. I was on reserve a hell of a lot longer than you have been, but I never let out a peep.

Make your points to the MEC and let them hammer it out in the upcoming (??) contract.

 

[FL000]

...And FAR's require you to read, write and speak English not proper grammer.

That's funny in so many ways.

 

[av8tor4239]

FL000, were you on reserve as an FO?... Mind telling me how long you were on on RESERVE as an FO, not captain. (and yes there is a big difference)


The language in section 24 was negotiated in, so there is no Grievance.. the only way to fix it is to get support to change it. Hence the point of this thread..

If it's not...sorry man. Suck it up. That's the industry. It ain't fair.

.. if you have a problem you try to do something to fix it. The point of broadcasting the problem on this website is not to b!tch about it, but rather to inform people that it exist, so when it comes time to vote on a TA we dont over look this part of the contract.

If the industry is not fair we are supposed to make it fair through our bargaining process, and that is what this thread is all about.. To inform all ASA pilots that have a vote that this situation is taking place and that this total disregard for senority will not stand in a new TA.

 

[Lequip]

Seriously,

What is this job without senority? We might as well be flipping burgers, especially for the pay. I like flying, but a McDonalds Manager makes more than a 3rd year FO at any Regional, including comair before and after thier concessions.


Where does it say that 3 year regional FO's deserve to make more than a McDonalds Manager? Any monkey can be trained and put in the right seat of an airplane to be babysat by a Captain. You need to realize how easy this airline gig really is and that the supply chain of new up and comers is AND ALWAYS WILL BE never ending. The combination of the fact that pilot s##%t DOES stink and this job ISN'T (rocket science, medicine, law, ect ect) means regional FO's DON'T deserve the big bucks!! Deal with your $25K - $40K pay range and just be happy with it. And GET OVER YOURSELF!!

 

[FL000]

Well, although I don't think I'm a moron, I did misconceive his post as a me, me, me post (as well as his other posts on this site). I reread it and agree that it is more informative than "poor little me" post. So for that, I'm sorry.

However, I still don't think this is the best channel for the bemoaning. Furthermore, I agree that the section of the contract is unfair...just one of many. I'm also looking to improve the language in the reserve section.

 

[captain caveman]

Seriously,

What is this job without senority? We might as well be flipping burgers, especially for the pay. I like flying, but a McDonalds Manager makes more than a 3rd year FO at any Regional, including comair before and after thier concessions.


Where does it say that 3 year regional FO's deserve to make more than a McDonalds Manager? Any monkey can be trained and put in the right seat of an airplane to be babysat by a Captain. You need to realize how easy this airline gig really is and that the supply chain of new up and comers is AND ALWAYS WILL BE never ending. The combination of the fact that pilot s##%t DOES stink and this job ISN'T (rocket science, medicine, law, ect ect) means regional FO's DON'T deserve the big bucks!! Deal with your $25K - $40K pay range and just be happy with it. And GET OVER YOURSELF!!

LeQuip,
Are you a real live pilot? If so, you need a promotion to managment because you're far to intellegent for our ranks. I'm sure you could breed and train a large group of apes to take over our ranks and they will work for bananas instead of peanuts. This would entitle a large bonus to management while you could stroke your monkey!

 

[av8tor4239]

FL000... You are not a moron, I am sorry, I over reacted.. i am just very sensitive on this issue

 

[av8tor4239]

Lequip,

You are right about the monkey part, if airline managers could they would put monkeys in the right seat.. they would put them in the left seat too!

Sounds like you are willing to let that happen.. You dont have much respect for yourself or your professoin.. You must think of yourself as a monkey...

You might be willing to work for banannas, but I am not!

 

[FL000]

FL000... You are not a moron, I am sorry, I over reacted.. i am just very sensitive on this issue

Not a problem. I've been called worse.

 

[Mmmmmm Burritos]

We've all taken a bite of the fecal focaccia.

What?!!? So THAT'S what they are selling at the Atlanta Bread Company!!

 

[captain caveman]

It's not moron, it's intellectually(sp?) challanged.

 

[US Flyer]

Seriously,


...Any monkey can be trained and put in the right seat of an airplane to be babysat by a Captain. You need to realize how easy this airline gig really is and that the supply chain of new up and comers is AND ALWAYS WILL BE never ending. ...regional FO's DON'T deserve the big bucks!! Deal with your $25K - $40K pay range and just be happy with it. And GET OVER YOURSELF!!

Unprofessional, rude and stupid post, buddy. If this is your real attitude, and not flamebait, then you are an a$%hole. Do you want a monkey in charge of the flight with your family on board when the PIC has a heart attack or stroke?

So by your logic then none of us at the regionals deserve a pay increase? When you transitioned to left seat you were suddenly a "sky-king" and babysitter all in one. Five to seven years from now the supply will start to dry up as the cost of getting ratings is becoming more cost prohibitive. I spent 25K ten years ago getting my ratings and with a spouse, two kids, car and house payments it was a struggle to pay those loans back making 20-30K a year for the last decade (until recently). The pay scales at regionals are not designed to have someone be an FO for years on end.

If the airline industry has been off a bit and seniority/movement does not allow people to upgrade for several years they are not a lesser pilot. When I was a new hire here I flew with several low-time new CRJ captains that couldn't find their a$% from a hole in the ground. They had absolutely no idea what the hell they were doing, and had no business being PIC of anything with wings. With those guys, I deserved more pay than they did for getting them/us out of situations on a daily basis. The FO's at ASA bust their butts on a daily basis - if they don't deserve a pay increase then nobody does.

I hope I never have to work with you on the flightdeck. Incidentally, most (not all) of our newhire FO's I've flown with can fly as well or better than many of the crusty captains.

Maybe someday when I leave here and make it to a major I will become one of the elite sky-gods like you.

If I were you I'd take my own ego-maniac advice and "get over yourself"...

 

[socony_air]

Lequip, you sir are truly an idiot.
"Deserve" is a relative term. I would suggest you don't "Deserve" to post here or taste solid foods, but that would just be my opinion now wouldn't it?
Regional FO's EARN whatever one's rep's have negotiated for them - just like you do. Your 10,000 hours does not make you any more qualified than the next "monkey"; but your attitude makes you less.
There have been many times when I've had to cover for one of my "babysitters" when they've a)Fallen Asleep, b)forgetten a limitation/airspeed/Mountain, etc., or c)displayed a rush to know everything at the expense of the obvious.... we all make mistakes -- including you Lequip.
What a pilot "Deserves" has nothing to do with the fact that the passengers behind BOTH pilots rely on someone who is looking out for their safety and not distracted (ie. overly worried about how to come up with next months rent payment or Jr's diaper money).
The fact that you don't get this shows you are out of touch. Yes, the market & negotiation control payscales.... But it is in the public interest to have pilots - yes, even regional FO's like me - who are not too destracted by their own bankruptcy proceedings to catch some error you made while counting your money.
One observation you made however, was brilliant....."Flying is not Rocket Science" - Genius.

 

[601Pilot]

Seriously,

What is this job without senority? We might as well be flipping burgers, especially for the pay. I like flying, but a McDonalds Manager makes more than a 3rd year FO at any Regional, including comair before and after thier concessions.

If you are confused what I am refering to:


I will never understand the airlines out there that operate without Senority, or the corportate outfits that dont have Senority.. there have been a few guys from ASA go to OMNI International, they upgrade on a merit system, not by Senority. So if you kiss enough a$$ you get to be a captain.. I dont get it..

ASA PILOTS.. FIX SECTION 24

I agree with you, but you can bug the hell out of Brian Morris and try to get into an RJ class. That's about the only way to do it as far as I know.

Good luck.

 

[Yank McCobb]

The REAL morons are the ones that responded to Lequip's obvious (and extremely weak, I might add) flame bait.

 

[Propsync]

Ah, Lequip, your posts are the best, man. And you're right. Look guys, if you think you deserve more, you would have never taken the job in the first place. Why did all of you do that? Because if you didn't get in fast enough, you wouldn't be able to upgrade quick enough, get the base you wanted, get the JET, etc. If all of you that think you deserve more, you should have never taken the job in the first place. Wait until it's what you're worth. Bet you'd never get to fly if you did it that way. Unless you people can change everything and make it all better for everyone, just shut up and cash your check.

Also, good job at taking the monkey joke way too seriously.

 

[capt.snitch]

Why do you guys complain about the contract negotiated and signed by the pilot group. The problem is that we don't know if the negotiating committee gave the bypass issue up to get something else in the contract that benefits us more. The "one for one" issue was taken to mediation and we lost. Why should everyone who is bypassed get the pay when only one of them could have held the position?

The contract protects the bypassed pilot with regard to salary. perhaps we should seek that it pay the bypassed pilot the greater of his credit hours or those of the pilot who jumped over him. That might eliminate some of the unfairness.

The company is not going to allow pilots to incrementally move through all of the equipment and remain in training for most of their first few years. Just too expensive and protecting the pay of the person who could have held the position was the way that our reps agreed.

If more of us were involved with ALPA, our reps might know what we want as a group. I don't think that a group consensus is represented on this forum or in the crew lounge. Most people enjoy their job and think that they are fairly well treated. They also seem to be happy that we have not been asked for concessions yet.

BTW. That ant march yesterday was really impressive. At the end of the South Concourse island where anyone who cared to stop and look would have been run off by the cops. Quite a statement.