Asa & Etops

[Headfake14]

...well, heard we're finally getting some relief from the "50 mile" rule. The 700/705s (if any) will get the "mod". Life vests under each seat and the crews will probably have to jump in the pool for training. The new limit will be 142ish miles off shore.


discuss

 

["GO AROUND"]

Wooohooo

Pool party!

 

[Richard Gozinya]

Guadalajara on June 8th!

 

[Richard Gozinya]

Meridia is on the horizon!

 

[John Pennekamp]

That's a scary thought considering ASA's -700 engine reliability.

Back in '97 we had an issue at TWA with engine failures in the 757 during ETOPS operations (yes, TWA flew '75s across the pond from JFK). Crews were told to keep an engine running at idle if possible rather than shut it down, because if we had one more engine shutdown, we would lose our ETOPS authorization.

We didn't lose it.

 

[Grassstrippilot]

...well, heard we're finally getting some relief from the "50 mile" rule. The 700/705s (if any) will get the "mod". Life vests under each seat and the crews will probably have to jump in the pool for training. The new limit will be 142ish miles off shore.


discuss

If I remember correctly from recurrent ground last week, it will be 163nm.

 

[asa rat]

ETOPS = Engines Turn Or People Swim

 

[jws717]

ETOPS = Engines Turn Or People Swim

NICE quote!
Does the 700 have the 45 min limitation on the cargo bin like the 200?

 

[TOOL CRIB]

NICE quote!
Does the 700 have the 45 min limitation on the cargo bin like the 200?

Only if you consider the ocean as a "suitable place to land"

And any jet can easily cover 163nm in 45 min. Except maybe a Citation!

 

[crjskipper]

<That's a scary thought considering ASA's -700 engine reliability.>

What, what, what? I have been flying the 700 for 4 years and have never had a single engine issue and haven't met another ASA pilot who has. A safety guy told my recurrent class that no 700 engine had ever been shutdown at ASA for a valid reason. One was - but the crew chose to, they were not directed to after a roll back.

The CF34 is one of the safest engines in history. I think we average less than 1 shutdown per month over the entire 200/700 fleet - thats with 25,000 or so departures a month.

 

[DrunkIrishman]

Does the 700 have the 45 min limitation on the cargo bin like the 200?

Nope! It magically changed from 45 to 60 in the last POH revision. Can you say, pencil whipped?

 

[ReportCanoa]

ETOPS certification of a Boeing, yes. CRJ, no. It's only a waiver to the 50 mile FAR/Ops Specification.

 

[crjskipper]

damn drunk - does everything have to be a conspiracy. i can see it now - the next new post "BL makes ASA fly further over the water for less pay - that bastard!"

The limitation in the AFM has always been 60, they just lowered it to 45 to match the 200 and make it simpler. Now they are changing it back - so say the 700 IP dudes. No majic or conspiracy.

 

[mdanno808]

ETOPS certification of a Boeing, yes. CRJ, no. It's only a waiver to the 50 mile FAR/Ops Specification.

Yeah, what he said. All this means is that they are putting life vests, emergency equipt. etc. on the aircraft. ETOPS is exceeding 1 hour flight time at a designated diversion speed away from a suitable airport.
​

 

[Prog 2/2]

ETOPS certification of a Boeing, yes. CRJ, no. It's only a waiver to the 50 mile FAR/Ops Specification.

Absolutely right.


ETOPS has nothing whatsoever to do with this discussion. What is being discussed is equipping the aircraft for Extended Overwater Operations (EOW), defined as being more than 50 miles offshore.

ETOPS certification allows you to operate more than 60 mins from a suitable landing airport.

EOW allows you to operate more than 50 miles offshore as long as you have the equipment and training. So equipped, you will still be required to be within 60 mins of a suitable landing airport at all times.

 

[blueridge71]

That's a scary thought considering ASA's -700 engine reliability.

I havn't heard of any reliability problems. We do have issues with maintenance costs, but I havn't heard of a single engine failure. (That is one way that the CRJ is definitely superior to the DoJet.)

We are supposed to be getting derated CRJ 900 engines to extend the service life of the engines.

 

[Smacktard]

That's a scary thought considering ASA's -700 engine reliability.

I don't think it's the reliability as in failure as much as it is the engine's ability to make it to TBO. I remember hearing that it was hitting about 50% of it's 'rated' TBO.

 

[Tim47SIP]

Etops-eow

I thought that they were replacing all of the 700 engines for 900 engines and derating them in heavy maintenance?? Are we still doing this??

 

[scarlet]

yes we are and some are on now---162nm---and 60 mins from suitable rway--cass coming soon too now that we are on the Skywest system...

 

[701EV]

<That's a scary thought considering ASA's -700 engine reliability.>

What, what, what? I have been flying the 700 for 4 years and have never had a single engine issue and haven't met another ASA pilot who has. A safety guy told my recurrent class that no 700 engine had ever been shutdown at ASA for a valid reason. One was - but the crew chose to, they were not directed to after a roll back.

The CF34 is one of the safest engines in history. I think we average less than 1 shutdown per month over the entire 200/700 fleet - thats with 25,000 or so departures a month.

We did have one shut down by itself going into DAB in the last two years. I belive Beall was the Captain. Other than that I have not heard of any others.

701EV

 

[Tomct]

Go Around...do you really want to see ANY of our FA's in the pool. You will begin to hear all sorts of "Whale Song!" That will be one party that I will be GLAD to MISS!!

 

[DrunkIrishman]

dang drunk - does everything have to be a conspiracy.

No, not a conspiracy; just a pencil whipping. Maybe that is true about it always having been 60. I just find it odd that for four years it was 45 and then the over water thing comes up and BOOYAH, it's 60. Other limits were different from the 200 so I'm not sure why they would have elected to have this one standard.

 

[sweptback]

No, not a conspiracy; just a pencil whipping. Maybe that is true about it always having been 60. I just find it odd that for four years it was 45 and then the over water thing comes up and BOOYAH, it's 60. Other limits were different from the 200 so I'm not sure why they would have elected to have this one standard.

The 45 minute deal is due to the fact that the firex bottles in the cargo bin are rated for 45 minutes of discharge. Maybe they just replaced the 45 minute bottles with 60 minute bottles?

 

[DrunkIrishman]

Maybe they just replaced the 45 minute bottles with 60 minute bottles?

Without a maintenance write-up. That seems odd to me.

 

[sweptback]

Without a maintenance write-up. That seems odd to me.

Maybe they did it as part of a service or hangar check, who knows. I'm not saying they did, I'm just saying that it was possible.

 

[bailout]

They told us in recurrent that the 70s have always had 60 minute bottles but ASA wrote the limitation to keep it 'fleet common.' Apparantly there are more 'differences' than ASA has led us to believe in keeping things 'common'. Tutt is making alot of changes like this.

 

[BobbyBiplane]

They told us in recurrent that the 70s have always had 60 minute bottles but ASA wrote the limitation to keep it 'fleet common.' Apparantly there are more 'differences' than ASA has led us to believe in keeping things 'common'. Tutt is making alot of changes like this.

Charlie has nothing to do with this. You can thanl Les. He is the brains behind this exemption since Drew left (he initiated it).

Bob

 

[crash41]

dang drunk - does everything have to be a conspiracy. i can see it now - the next new post "BL makes ASA fly further over the water for less pay - that bastard!"

The limitation in the AFM has always been 60, they just lowered it to 45 to match the 200 and make it simpler. Now they are changing it back - so say the 700 IP dudes. No majic or conspiracy.

Skipper, how does it feel to wear those knee pads for management? Do you still have a gag reflex??????

 

[John Pennekamp]

I don't think it's the reliability as in failure as much as it is the engine's ability to make it to TBO. I remember hearing that it was hitting about 50% of it's 'rated' TBO.

Agreed.

 

[Diesel]

Gotta love part 91 1500 miles at least offshore and no ETOPS.