ASA Damage/Solution

[Klamath]

I’ve been a lurker since 2002; this is my first thread. I don't have the time to get fancy but here's my two cents.

I'm tired of this bull. We need a contract. We need to end the threats. It makes me sick to see Skywest possibly grow at 70 newhires per month while we mold. There are threats of transferring aircraft. It hasn't happened yet but it’s possible.

I don't see us being released to strike anytime soon. Illegal work actions are just that, illegal.

There are senior captains that have been here a while, a bunch of captains that have been here less than 7 years and then a bunch of FO's like myself (4+ years) that have been here 4 years or less. The senior captains have something to loose. The rest of us don't. Junior captains can get a job elsewhere. FOs like myself are screwed here at ASA unless we get a contract and grow. FOs will have no problem getting another job, look at all the 250hr wonders the airlines hire.

Here's my solution, IF Skywest starts to transfer assets we put a stop to it. At this point ALPA could not be involved. It would take the majority of the pilot group to move on their own initiative.

There is nothing illegal about us all QUITTING at the same time (without ALPA approval and with no strike protection). Sure there will be those who won't but if most or even half of us do, then the damage is done. I say we set the Christmas timeframe for universal withdrawals of employment. If ASA starts to transfer assets, the majority of us have nothing to gain and ASA/Skywest everything to lose.

I'm tired of corporate America sticking to people everywhere. We are just ants marching in step for the man! Management screws us with impunity! It will take one group with some huevos to make them take notice. Even if just simply the FO’s all quit on the same day, that would cripple ASA (as if it wasn’t cripple already).

Some pilot group has to do something! Look in the mirror, you could survive working at Moe’s (or somewhere else) for a few months until your next $hi++y regional job. Go ahead, line up other jobs aviation wise or in other sectors. Give your availability date for employment as the 15th of December. Stick it out here at ASA until then and then we all (or those with a sack) quit the same day. Our pay just ain't worth the a$$ reaming they are giving us. I'd work anywhere just to see one corporation go down hard. Together we can take down Goliath without getting arrested in the process.

Cheers

 

[AsaLossPaywAlpa]

get rid of ALPA

now!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[Palerider957]

I’ve been a lurker since 2002; this is my first thread. I don't have the time to get fancy but here's my two cents.

I'm tired of this bull. We need a contract. We need to end the threats. It makes me sick to see Skywest possibly grow at 70 newhires per month while we mold. There are threats of transferring aircraft. It hasn't happened yet but it’s possible.

I don't see us being released to strike anytime soon. Illegal work actions are just that, illegal.

There are senior captains that have been here a while, a bunch of captains that have been here less than 7 years and then a bunch of FO's like myself (4+ years) that have been here 4 years or less. The senior captains have something to loose. The rest of us don't. Junior captains can get a job elsewhere. FOs like myself are screwed here at ASA unless we get a contract and grow. FOs will have no problem getting another job, look at all the 250hr wonders the airlines hire.

Here's my solution, IF Skywest starts to transfer assets we put a stop to it. At this point ALPA could not be involved. It would take the majority of the pilot group to move on their own initiative.

There is nothing illegal about us all QUITTING at the same time (without ALPA approval and with no strike protection). Sure there will be those who won't but if most or even half of us do, then the damage is done. I say we set the Christmas timeframe for universal withdrawals of employment. If ASA starts to transfer assets, the majority of us have nothing to gain and ASA/Skywest everything to lose.

I'm tired of corporate America sticking to people everywhere. We are just ants marching in step for the man! Management screws us with impunity! It will take one group with some huevos to make them take notice. Even if just simply the FO’s all quit on the same day, that would cripple ASA (as if it wasn’t cripple already).

Some pilot group has to do something! Look in the mirror, you could survive working at Moe’s (or somewhere else) for a few months until your next $hi++y regional job. Go ahead, line up other jobs aviation wise or in other sectors. Give your availability date for employment as the 15th of December. Stick it out here at ASA until then and then we all (or those with a sack) quit the same day. Our pay just ain't worth the a$$ reaming they are giving us. I'd work anywhere just to see one corporation go down hard. Together we can take down Goliath without getting arrested in the process.

Cheers

I undestrand your frustration, but it's not likely to happen. Yes there are other jobs out there, but there not much better. And you are right, it's not worth the money or frustration. That's why I left ASA and have never looked back, and feel good about what I'm doing now.

There is anohter path.....simply call off sick. There are a 100 reasons why you can't come in and fly. I called off sick for FIVE WEEKS before I finally got a call from the CP's office. They only called because the Scheduling I-D-I-O-T-S did'nt show me as sick (eventhough I had called them) and hit me for a no-show.

Another friend of mine got a doctors note and took almost a year off...

 

[Klamath]

No you tool! You don't get it. Let ALPA continue to fight this uphill battle but any organization like ALPA is legally bound. We as individuals have our own power to stand up. Individually we can organize to quit. Sounds drastic but things are setting up to possibly drain the life out of us. I for one, am not willing to serve as they shrink us. Again, not one airplane has been transferred but, if their threats come true, I ‘m outta here. The only problem is if we don’t put up a fight, in unison, they will slowly shrink us while we continue to serve them. If shrinkage happens we need swiftly spin kick them in the head.

I stand by ALPA. I realize that they have limited power when it comes to striking, we can vote but the gov’t has to release us. If we aren’t released and they transfer aircraft, then we act and kick’em in the jimmy.

Cheers

 

[Firehoser]

<<There are threats of transferring aircraft. It hasn't happened yet but it’s possible>>

If you had an asset used by contractor "A" which could be used by contractor "B" at a lower cost (and thus higher profit), what would you do as a company manager - particularly with the company owners (shareholders) scrutinizing daily how you manage the company for them? Its not personal, its just sound business decisions should they occur.

<<There is nothing illegal about us all QUITTING at the same time (without ALPA approval and with no strike protection). >>

See the court's decision on the American Airlines sickout of 5000 pilots. It cost their union $45 million dollars in judgments. The passengers filed a class action lawsuit against the pilots proper. I wouldn't recommended it. But on the other hand, go ahead, it makes for good copy on page one and really does a good job of communicating to the public just how professional we are.

<< The rest of us don't. Junior captains can get a job elsewhere. >>

Have you taken a hard look at the industry lately? There are only a very few carriers hiring and I would bet, knowing something of the screening at Southwest and Jet Blue, your attitude wouldn't make it through those carriers. Good luck with Mesa.........

<<I'm tired of corporate America sticking to people everywhere. We are just ants marching in step for the man! Management screws us with impunity!>>

For sure this industry has had its share of dictatorial CEOs who don't understand leadership. On the other hand, if you had bothered to learn anything of our industry's history and conduct any research of the other carriers you would likely be able to get a job with (Most major carriers don't hire pilots without 1000 hours of Part 125 PIC time- you would have to go to another regional)., you would realize that ASA is a pretty good place to work right now with a decent contract, decent benefits, reasonable management and one of the best financials in the industry. Thats more than the majority of this industry can say right now. But then I can tell that you are an adventurous spirit and like to hang your financial and professional ass over the edge. I say: Go for it!

<<Some pilot group has to do something! Look in the mirror, you could survive working at Moe’s (or somewhere else) for a few months until your next $hi++y regional job. >

Go! Son, Go! Thats the spirit! Thats exactly the attitude of the Delta, Northwest, American, United, and US Airways pilots during their last contract negotiations in the late 1990s. Management back then was telling them their contracts weren't sustainable too. But buck up boys, someone has to draw the line in the sand! We will show them! Unfortunately, the only pilot group in the list above to wise up and understand the global forces in the marketplace and understand you could wail away at that bull in the china shop to no avail was the American pilots: they settled early for a pay cut and avoided bankruptcy. Post bankruptcy, the pilots at Delta, United, Northwest, and US Airways are working under contracts that are worse than they had 20 years ago. But hey - who cares - they showed management right?

As to ********************ty regional jobs, let get a gut check. If you think the glory days of $300,000 a year salaries flying 45 hours a month with a guaranteed pension are coming back to the majors, you are delusional. Regional pay will not significantly increase until major airline pilot's pay increases. It will, but it will be 6-10 years before it does. And when it begins to once again approach the old days of high earnings, some new low cost carriers will come into the marketplace, undercut everyone else and the whole cycle will start again - but only because the union workforce - with members like yourself, never learns from history, never learns to adjust their expectations, never learns to abandon the avarice and greed that has marked the history of labor in this industry.

And they never will under John Sweeney and Dwayne Woerth. John Sweeney, head of the AFL-CIO, is a member of the Democratic Socialists of America. Socialists have repeatedly demonstrated they don't understand nor can function in a free market economy,thus their ability to understand global market forces, capitalism, and how they affect front line workers is fundamentally crippled. Under Socialism and Marxism, labor rates have no relationship to productivity, quality, global market forces or its preferences. Profit doesn't matter when you have a worker utopia. Thus the historic inabilty of unions to adjust to sea changes in their industry, especially when it moves from protectionist policies like regulation, to free market policies where the customer ultimately dictates what price they will pay for goods and services. The steel industry is a good example - their unions resisted contract concessions that would have enabled their companies to invest in more efficient and automated production processes. But that wasn't acceptable because it would have eliminated union jobs. The result: The "Steel Belt" is now the "Rust Belt" as steel mill after steel mill went bankrupt because they couldn't compete with Japanese imports (Unlike American union workers, the Japanese, paid as well as American workers, understand the concept of teamwork, and how efficiencies ultimately make their careers more secure).Didn't you learn this at college? Oh. sorry, I forgot, conservative, free market thought is not welcome in the university anymore.

<<Our pay just ain't worth the a$$ reaming they are giving us. >>

LOL - this is reminiscent of PDK WATCH - the organization trying to shut down PDK airport. PDK airport has been in existence as a military or civilian airport since 1947. Now, some of its neighbors are trying to shut it down complaining about airport noise. My rejoiner to their complaints - why didn't you do your research before you bought your house? Because you were too lazy to do your research and bought your house in ignorance of an airport being close by does not justify tearing the facility down. To you Mr. Pilot, I would say - why didn't you do your research before you accepted a job at ASA? Didn't you understand the pay rates? Why didn't you take the time to understand the global market forces in your industry and how they might affect you? Why didn't you do your research regarding ASA, its relationship with Delta, and the financial condition of Delta? Why didn't you understand the likely length of time to upgrade, to be hired at a major or other similar carrier? Until you do you will always be a victim of your industry. Because you accepted your job in ignorance does not justify tearning ASA down and destroying the livelihoods of 4000 innocent employees.



But that isn't important is it? - because after all, its all about YOU!

Why don't you take some responsibility for your choices?

 

[rjcap]

I undestrand your frustration, but it's not likely to happen. Yes there are other jobs out there, but there not much better. And you are right, it's not worth the money or frustration. That's why I left ASA and have never looked back, and feel good about what I'm doing now.

There is anohter path.....simply call off sick. There are a 100 reasons why you can't come in and fly. I called off sick for FIVE WEEKS before I finally got a call from the CP's office. They only called because the Scheduling I-D-I-O-T-S did'nt show me as sick (eventhough I had called them) and hit me for a no-show.

Another friend of mine got a doctors note and took almost a year off...

I never got a doctors note !

 

[shamrock]

There is anohter path.....simply call off sick. There are a 100 reasons why you can't come in and fly. I called off sick for FIVE WEEKS before I finally got a call from the CP's office.

Just out of curiosity, how did you (or did you) get paid during your illness? Did you have a lot of sick time left or was it basically an unpaid recuperation?

 

[ReportCanoa]

Why don't you take some responsibility for your choices?

A valiant try, and right on cue. But if I fall for that I'm as stupid as you.

 

[FreightNazi]

<<There are threats of transferring aircraft. It hasn't happened yet but it’s possible>>

If you had an asset used by contractor "A" which could be used by contractor "B" at a lower cost (and thus higher profit), what would you do as a company manager - particularly with the company owners (shareholders) scrutinizing daily how you manage the company for them? Its not personal, its just sound business decisions should they occur.

<<There is nothing illegal about us all QUITTING at the same time (without ALPA approval and with no strike protection). >>

See the court's decision on the American Airlines sickout of 5000 pilots. It cost their union $45 million dollars in judgments. The passengers filed a class action lawsuit against the pilots proper. I wouldn't recommended it. But on the other hand, go ahead, it makes for good copy on page one and really does a good job of communicating to the public just how professional we are.

<< The rest of us don't. Junior captains can get a job elsewhere. >>

Have you taken a hard look at the industry lately? There are only a very few carriers hiring and I would bet, knowing something of the screening at Southwest and Jet Blue, your attitude wouldn't make it through those carriers. Good luck with Mesa.........

<<I'm tired of corporate America sticking to people everywhere. We are just ants marching in step for the man! Management screws us with impunity!>>

For sure this industry has had its share of dictatorial CEOs who don't understand leadership. On the other hand, if you had bothered to learn anything of our industry's history and conduct any research of the other carriers you would likely be able to get a job with (Most major carriers don't hire pilots without 1000 hours of Part 125 PIC time- you would have to go to another regional)., you would realize that ASA is a pretty good place to work right now with a decent contract, decent benefits, reasonable management and one of the best financials in the industry. Thats more than the majority of this industry can say right now. But then I can tell that you are an adventurous spirit and like to hang your financial and professional ass over the edge. I say: Go for it!

<<Some pilot group has to do something! Look in the mirror, you could survive working at Moe’s (or somewhere else) for a few months until your next $hi++y regional job. >

Go! Son, Go! Thats the spirit! Thats exactly the attitude of the Delta, Northwest, American, United, and US Airways pilots during their last contract negotiations in the late 1990s. Management back then was telling them their contracts weren't sustainable too. But buck up boys, someone has to draw the line in the sand! We will show them! Unfortunately, the only pilot group in the list above to wise up and understand the global forces in the marketplace and understand you could wail away at that bull in the china shop to no avail was the American pilots: they settled early for a pay cut and avoided bankruptcy. Post bankruptcy, the pilots at Delta, United, Northwest, and US Airways are working under contracts that are worse than they had 20 years ago. But hey - who cares - they showed management right?

As to ********************ty regional jobs, let get a gut check. If you think the glory days of $300,000 a year salaries flying 45 hours a month with a guaranteed pension are coming back to the majors, you are delusional. Regional pay will not significantly increase until major airline pilot's pay increases. It will, but it will be 6-10 years before it does. And when it begins to once again approach the old days of high earnings, some new low cost carriers will come into the marketplace, undercut everyone else and the whole cycle will start again - but only because the union workforce - with members like yourself, never learns from history, never learns to adjust their expectations, never learns to abandon the avarice and greed that has marked the history of labor in this industry.

And they never will under John Sweeney and Dwayne Woerth. John Sweeney, head of the AFL-CIO, is a member of the Democratic Socialists of America. Socialists have repeatedly demonstrated they don't understand nor can function in a free market economy,thus their ability to understand global market forces, capitalism, and how they affect front line workers is fundamentally crippled. Under Socialism and Marxism, labor rates have no relationship to productivity, quality, global market forces or its preferences. Profit doesn't matter when you have a worker utopia. Thus the historic inabilty of unions to adjust to sea changes in their industry, especially when it moves from protectionist policies like regulation, to free market policies where the customer ultimately dictates what price they will pay for goods and services. The steel industry is a good example - their unions resisted contract concessions that would have enabled their companies to invest in more efficient and automated production processes. But that wasn't acceptable because it would have eliminated union jobs. The result: The "Steel Belt" is now the "Rust Belt" as steel mill after steel mill went bankrupt because they couldn't compete with Japanese imports (Unlike American union workers, the Japanese, paid as well as American workers, understand the concept of teamwork, and how efficiencies ultimately make their careers more secure).Didn't you learn this at college? Oh. sorry, I forgot, conservative, free market thought is not welcome in the university anymore.

<<Our pay just ain't worth the a$$ reaming they are giving us. >>

LOL - this is reminiscent of PDK WATCH - the organization trying to shut down PDK airport. PDK airport has been in existence as a military or civilian airport since 1947. Now, some of its neighbors are trying to shut it down complaining about airport noise. My rejoiner to their complaints - why didn't you do your research before you bought your house? Because you were too lazy to do your research and bought your house in ignorance of an airport being close by does not justify tearing the facility down. To you Mr. Pilot, I would say - why didn't you do your research before you accepted a job at ASA? Didn't you understand the pay rates? Why didn't you take the time to understand the global market forces in your industry and how they might affect you? Why didn't you do your research regarding ASA, its relationship with Delta, and the financial condition of Delta? Why didn't you understand the likely length of time to upgrade, to be hired at a major or other similar carrier? Until you do you will always be a victim of your industry. Because you accepted your job in ignorance does not justify tearning ASA down and destroying the livelihoods of 4000 innocent employees.



But that isn't important is it? - because after all, its all about YOU!

Why don't you take some responsibility for your choices?

Don't paint with so broad a brush. Those days are here NOW.

 

[AMANSWORLD]

I’ve been a lurker since 2002; this is my first thread. I don't have the time to get fancy but here's my two cents.

I'm tired of this bull. We need a contract. We need to end the threats. It makes me sick to see Skywest possibly grow at 70 newhires per month while we mold. There are threats of transferring aircraft. It hasn't happened yet but it’s possible.

I don't see us being released to strike anytime soon. Illegal work actions are just that, illegal.

There are senior captains that have been here a while, a bunch of captains that have been here less than 7 years and then a bunch of FO's like myself (4+ years) that have been here 4 years or less. The senior captains have something to loose. The rest of us don't. Junior captains can get a job elsewhere. FOs like myself are screwed here at ASA unless we get a contract and grow. FOs will have no problem getting another job, look at all the 250hr wonders the airlines hire.

Here's my solution, IF Skywest starts to transfer assets we put a stop to it. At this point ALPA could not be involved. It would take the majority of the pilot group to move on their own initiative.

There is nothing illegal about us all QUITTING at the same time (without ALPA approval and with no strike protection). Sure there will be those who won't but if most or even half of us do, then the damage is done. I say we set the Christmas timeframe for universal withdrawals of employment. If ASA starts to transfer assets, the majority of us have nothing to gain and ASA/Skywest everything to lose.

I'm tired of corporate America sticking to people everywhere. We are just ants marching in step for the man! Management screws us with impunity! It will take one group with some huevos to make them take notice. Even if just simply the FO’s all quit on the same day, that would cripple ASA (as if it wasn’t cripple already).

Some pilot group has to do something! Look in the mirror, you could survive working at Moe’s (or somewhere else) for a few months until your next $hi++y regional job. Go ahead, line up other jobs aviation wise or in other sectors. Give your availability date for employment as the 15th of December. Stick it out here at ASA until then and then we all (or those with a sack) quit the same day. Our pay just ain't worth the a$$ reaming they are giving us. I'd work anywhere just to see one corporation go down hard. Together we can take down Goliath without getting arrested in the process.

Cheers

Like your idea. It may take just that. Most people can get a job with same pay pay and benefits. You can also have a life and sleep in your own bed. What a concept.