ASA CR7 OPERATING COSTS VS. SKYW and COMAIR

[USCtrojan]

This is for the Naysayers/Doom and Gloomers:

CRJ 700 3rd Quarter 2005
OPERATING DATA ASA SKYW COMAIR
Revenue Passenger Miles 593.36 514.58 399.01
Available Seat Miles 746.15 655.28 554.85
Load Factor 79.52% 78.53% 71.91%

Revenue Miles 10,659 9,783 7,926
Revenue Hours 24,253 22,666 19,385
Block Hours 30,180 28,551 24,331
Aircraft Days 2,028 3,126 2,366
Revenue Departures 15,584 15,162 14,672
Gallons of Fuel 14,367 14,103 11,601

FINANCIAL DATA
Flight Crew Expense $9,730 $9,341 $8,227
Fuel Expense $27,127 $29,633 $22,199
Total Flying Expense $38,953 $39,737 $31,264

Direct Maint. - Airframe $4,331 $1,715 $3,391
Direct Main. - Engines $888 $3,530 $317
Total Direct Maintenance $5,219 $5,245 $3,708
Maintenance Burden $693 $0 $1,462

Depreciation $7,012 $2,608 $6,059
Aircraft Rent $1,033 $11,984 $255

Total Aircraft Operating Expense $53,112 $59,574 $42,748

OPERATING COST PER BLOCK HOUR

FLIGHT CREW COST $322 $327 $338

Fuel Cost $899 $1038 $912
Other Costs $69 $27 $34

TOTAL FLYING COST $1,291 $1,392 $1,285

Direct Main. - Airframe $144 $60 $139
Direct Main. - Engines $29 $124 $13
Total Direct Maintenance $173 $184 $152
Maintenance Burden $23 $0 $60

Total maintenance cost $196 $91 $249

Depreciation $232 $91 $212
Aircraft Rent $34 $420 $10

TOTAL COST PER BLOCK HOUR $1,760 $2,087 $1,757


RATIOS AND OPERATING
INDICATORS


COST PER AVAILABLE SEAT MILE 7.12 9.09 7.70

FLIGHT CREW COST PER ASM 1.3 1.43 1.48

COST PER AIRCRAFT MILE $5 $6 $5


Daily utilization 14.9 9.1 10.3
Avg. Speed 353 343 326
Gallons of fuel per block hour 476 494 477
Fuel Cost per Gallon $1.89 $2.10 $1.91
Average Stage Length 684 645 540
Avg. Departures per day 8 5 6

COST PER DEPARTURE $3,408 $3,929 $2,914



Data derived from DOT form 41


This is just for the 70, so it gets more profitable on the 50.

 

[FmrFreightDog]

This is, in fact, the crux of the issue. Everybody whines about "give us hard numbers, etc etc etc" Here you go. In the final accounting, ASA moves airplanes from point A to point B cheaper than Skywest. I don't see how management can dispute this, given these reported statistics. If the 70s and the 90s are going to Skywest, it is for some reason other than pilot costs, and no amount of concessions we take will change that fact. Additionally, if pilot wages are the determining factor, then why is there no talk of transfer of Skywest's 50 seat aircraft to ASA?

The hard truth here may be that the plan all along has been to slowly dismantle ASA. If that is the case, nothing we do can stop it. Why is it that all of you capitulator-types want to allow them to continue to shrink this company for the next several years and increase their profit margins on your backs at the same time? Good Lord. The French army has a stronger backbone than you people.

You all know what you are worth. The DOT numbers prove that ASA can afford you. Those 90s were going to Skywest from day 1, just like the 70s that were supposedly "on the table" a while back.

Why are we on the losing end of this deal? Maybe, just maybe, it's because ASA has consistently proven itself incapable of providing a quality product. The on-time and baggage numbers also speak for themselves. Our leadership is inept. The saddest part is that they will all most likely go on to devastate another company when this one is dead and gone. LaBreque is pretty much president by default. He just happened to be the guy standing there when Skip left. Scott Hall has a long history of failure on his resume. Charlie Tutt, nice guy though he may be, is a retired Delta guy with very little personal stake in the success or failure of ASA. How any of you can even consider the possibility that these people have your best interests at heart absolutely blows my mind.

The strike vote is coming. Vote your conscience. I have great faith in the majority of this pilot group, and I am convinced that despite all of management's bluster it will pass by an overwheming majority.

 

[MXAV8R]

This is, in fact, the crux of the issue. Everybody whines about "give us hard numbers, etc etc etc" Here you go. In the final accounting, ASA moves airplanes from point A to point B cheaper than Skywest. I don't see how management can dispute this, given these reported statistics. If the 70s and the 90s are going to Skywest, it is for some reason other than pilot costs, and no amount of concessions we take will change that fact. Additionally, if pilot wages are the determining factor, then why is there no talk of transfer of Skywest's 50 seat aircraft to ASA?

The hard truth here may be that the plan all along has been to slowly dismantle ASA. If that is the case, nothing we do can stop it. Why is it that all of you capitulator-types want to allow them to continue to shrink this company for the next several years and increase their profit margins on your backs at the same time? Good Lord. The French army has a stronger backbone than you people.

You all know what you are worth. The DOT numbers prove that ASA can afford you. Those 90s were going to Skywest from day 1, just like the 70s that were supposedly "on the table" a while back.

Why are we on the losing end of this deal? Maybe, just maybe, it's because ASA has consistently proven itself incapable of providing a quality product. The on-time and baggage numbers also speak for themselves. Our leadership is inept. The saddest part is that they will all most likely go on to devastate another company when this one is dead and gone. LaBreque is pretty much president by default. He just happened to be the guy standing there when Skip left. Scott Hall has a long history of failure on his resume. Charlie Tutt, nice guy though he may be, is a retired Delta guy with very little personal stake in the success or failure of ASA. How any of you can even consider the possibility that these people have your best interests at heart absolutely blows my mind.

The strike vote is coming. Vote your conscience. I have great faith in the majority of this pilot group, and I am convinced that despite all of management's bluster it will pass by an overwheming majority.

AMEN!
RIGHT ON!
THE TRUTH AND NOTHING BUT THE WHOLE TRUTH!
ASA management has lost face on this whole "Pilot Cost" being to HIGH at ASA.
The NUMBERS DON'T LIE just ASA management!

 

[USCtrojan]

Numbers

AMEN!
RIGHT ON!
THE TRUTH AND NOTHING BUT THE WHOLE TRUTH!
ASA management has lost face on this whole "Pilot Cost" being to HIGH at ASA.
The NUMBERS DON'T LIE just ASA management!

Union busting at its finest. What do you think the Skywest pilots will want when we get a pay raise? Jerry has to use ASA as an example to keep his troops in order. I don't blame mgmt. one bit, only because I would do the same thing. We have to keep our resolve, and fight for a FAIR contract.

Trojan

 

[Smacktard]

This is, in fact, the crux of the issue. Everybody whines about "give us hard numbers, etc etc etc" Here you go. In the final accounting, ASA moves airplanes from point A to point B cheaper than Skywest.

So therefore there are only 2 conclusions to Tutts letter;

A: SkyWest bought ASA to gut it and take the gates, assets, etc.

B: It's posturing.

If it's A there is nothing that can be done because our costs are already lower. Therefore, no amount of concessions will make a difference and ASA is gone regardless. (Or if you believe their garbage, and using Tutt's logic, we should expect to see all the SkyWest 200's at ASA.)

If it's B, well, welcome to airline negotiations 101. As one 22 year captain so eloquently told me, "this is the 4th time I've seen this crap".

 

[blueridge71]

Pay no attention to the man behind the curtain!

It's all smoke and mirrors. I think that Smacktard got it exactly right. It's hard for me to imagine that a sophisticated operator like JA would buy ASA and then dismantle it and move the airplanes to a more expensive company like SW. This is an amateurish attempt at selling pay cuts that has BL written all over it.

Unless they've been submitting false information to the DOT. And that could get real interesting.

 

[atlcrashpad]

Smacktard is right. Brian Liar Breque and King Tutt are using scare tactics to push Concessions on the people that Really work for the airline. I say call their bluff, if they want to really dismantle ASA you're going to lose anyway. Take them down with you.

 

[Tomct]

Atl, crash and smack, you guys hit the nail right on the head. This is all posturing and IF they want to dismantle us, no matter what we do they will still continue to do it anyway! So we really have NOTHING to lose. We need to show a STRONG VOTE on the is STRIKE VOTE!! I am sick of this game and I am READY to STICK IT TO JA, BL and Tutt!! Sc#w them ALLLL!!!

 

[ASADriver]

Can ALPA post what our 70 seat costs would be if they get what they are asking for? Seems to me our 70 seat costs would be off the scale if ALPA gets everything they are asking for. Post the data and let us make up our own minds.

 

[Tomct]

ASAdrvr, we started high and the LOSER mgmnt started "SLAP IN THE FACE" LOW. We will come to somewhere in the middle, but there is NO WAY that I am going to give up the "LITTLE" money that I make at this point! There is also NO WAY that the FO's should be taking paycuts either. That is utterly rediculous!!

 

[ASADriver]

ASAdrvr, we started high and the LOSER mgmnt started "SLAP IN THE FACE" LOW. We will come to somewhere in the middle, but there is NO WAY that I am going to give up the "LITTLE" money that I make at this point! There is also NO WAY that the FO's should be taking paycuts either. That is utterly rediculous!!

So I guess you don't care what the competition makes, or what the industry standard is? At least admit that you want the highest costs in the DCI system - that would be honest.

 

[Tomct]

NO!! I believe that we should be paid accordingly. I.E. ASA makes tons of money and yet they want us to take a paycut! NOT!!!
I don't want the highest cost's, I believe that they have been posted here on FI more than once. check the latest threads! We are 3-4 dollars cheaper than skywst and about 12-15 dollars cheaper than Comair. I don't see how that is okay for them to ask us for a paycut and YET we are the CHEAPEST!!! I believe that it was DOT filing #41! Check it out. You might be surprised!

 

[cmrflyer]

Don't forget, Delta only allows Comair to fly "our" planes for about five hours a day.
Welcome to the shell game, prepare yourself for a hardcore arse f@cking!

 

[scarlet]

UNION BUSTING MAYBE??????? ALPA????????????????? And for everyone it is no different than flying for *************************, because at anytime the skywest pilots could vote for alpa--or any union
Do they=NO

 

[Tomct]

Scarlet, I think that the skywst pilots are going to see through JA BS this time! They HAVE to know they are next in line for the cuts and without the union, THEY HAVE NO SAY!!!!!

 

[172driver]

All I can say is watch out for your union. They will bring you something and try to sell it to 51% of you because they like their cushy jobs.

 

[Pogue Mahone]

All I can say is watch out for your union. They will bring you something and try to sell it to 51% of you because they like their cushy jobs.

ROFL.

I think we have a winner for stupidest post of the day.

 

[ASADriver]

NO!! I believe that we should be paid accordingly. I.E. ASA makes tons of money and yet they want us to take a paycut! NOT!!!
I don't want the highest cost's, I believe that they have been posted here on FI more than once. check the latest threads! We are 3-4 dollars cheaper than skywst and about 12-15 dollars cheaper than Comair. I don't see how that is okay for them to ask us for a paycut and YET we are the CHEAPEST!!! I believe that it was DOT filing #41! Check it out. You might be surprised!

That DOT filing is with our current contract. It looks to me like if we get what we are asking for we will have the highest costs. As it is, it looks like we are just about even with SKYW on costs and higher than Mesa and CHQ. I also think those costs are based on CMR before their concessions. It seems like ASA and SKYW are already the highest 70 seat costs at Delta.

 

[777_Jackpot]

Unfortunately they data used in the begining of this thread was grossly inaccurate. Taken directly from the databases contained on the DOT - Bureau of Transportation Statistics (link on bottom of post), the numbers show CONCLUSIVELY that per flight hour, ASA cost almost 37% more to operate the CRJ700 then does Skywest.

Total Air Operations Expenses (CRJ700) In Thousands of Dollars for 2005

(definition: Expenses incurred directly in the in-flight operations of aircraft)

ASA - $202,650

Skywest - $203,996

Total Air Hours (CRJ700) In Thousands of Hours for 2005

ASA - 91 hrs

Skywest - 145 hrs

Cost to Operate (CRJ700) Per Hour In Flight Operations (2005)

ASA - $2227.00/hr

Skywest - $1407.00/hr

Its not pretty, but it is fact. But determine it for yourself:

http://transtats.bts.gov/Crosstabs.asp

If the link doesn't work let me know

(Aircraft Codes: 629 = CRJ200, 631 = CRJ700)
(Carrier Codes: EV = ASA, OO = Skywest)

 

[USCtrojan]

Numbers

Unfortunately they data used in the begining of this thread was grossly inaccurate. Taken directly from the databases contained on the DOT - Bureau of Transportation Statistics (link on bottom of post), the numbers show CONCLUSIVELY that per flight hour, ASA cost almost 37% more to operate the CRJ700 then does Skywest.

Total Air Operations Expenses (CRJ700) In Thousands of Dollars for 2005

(definition: Expenses incurred directly in the in-flight operations of aircraft)

ASA - $202,650

Skywest - $203,996

Total Air Hours (CRJ700) In Thousands of Hours for 2005

ASA - 91 hrs

Skywest - 145 hrs

Cost to Operate (CRJ700) Per Hour In Flight Operations (2005)

ASA - $2227.00/hr

Skywest - $1407.00/hr

Its not pretty, but it is fact. But determine it for yourself:

http://transtats.bts.gov/Crosstabs.asp

If the link doesn't work let me know

(Aircraft Codes: 629 = CRJ200, 631 = CRJ700)
(Carrier Codes: EV = ASA, OO = Skywest)

That data posted was not for all of 2005, third quarter only.

Trojan

 

[777_Jackpot]

First of all, I cannot find any of the numbers they have cited on the DOT's website. That, in its self, does not mean that they are not there. Maybe I am not looking hard enough. But you're welcome to search yourself. Second, it goes without saying that a single quarter is a poor indicator of an airlines, or any companies operating abilities. The 2005 figures that I have provided can be readily found and, in my opinion, are a better indicator of both companies capabilities.

 

[USCtrojan]

Numbers

First of all, I cannot find any of the numbers they have cited on the DOT's website. That, in its self, does not mean that they are not there. Maybe I am not looking hard enough. But you're welcome to search yourself. Second, it goes without saying that a single quarter is a poor indicator of an airlines, or any companies operating abilities. The 2005 figures that I have provided can be readily found and, in my opinion, are a better indicator of both companies capabilities.

Let's not forget a 13.1% profit margin. Additionally Skywest had a 10.4% profit margin. I'm no business guru, however, when you're the most profitable carrier in the US, the most profitable in the history of Salt Lake Airports existence, paycuts are a bitter pill to swallow. I really don't think the issue is pay anyway. It has more to do with scope. Yet, the reality of the situation is nobody I've talked to including myself believes what management is selling.

Trojan

 

[cmrflyer]

Comair (before Delta bought us) was the most profitable airline in the world (22%+ profit margin).
Yet four short years later we are in BK court, and 50.1% of the retards working here think we should pay for it.
Where was our cut of the profits during the good times?
You can complain all you like, unless you are a low wage whore, you will be looking for another job, thanks MESA. Glad to rub shoulders with you at the ALPA conventions.

 

[FDJ2]

The DOT data is junk. Not even worth the paper it is written on.

 

[777_Jackpot]

The DOT data is junk. Not even worth the paper it is written on.

On what grounds

 

[777_Jackpot]

Let's not forget a 13.1% profit margin. Additionally Skywest had a 10.4% profit margin. I'm no business guru, however, when you're the most profitable carrier in the US, the most profitable in the history of Salt Lake Airports existence, paycuts are a bitter pill to swallow. I really don't think the issue is pay anyway. It has more to do with scope. Yet, the reality of the situation is nobody I've talked to including myself believes what management is selling.

Trojan

Here is a very up to date list of profit margins in the airline industry.
http://www.investor.reuters.com/Ind...N&orderby=4&nss=ww&sectorcode=TRANSP&ord=desc

 

[FDJ2]

On what grounds

Garbage in, garbage out. DOT data showed CMR wildly profitable last year, actual costs of the operation can and often do vary greatly from the unauditted DOT junk. Bottomline, CMR actually lost about $100M last year.

 

[skyslug]

FDJ2, you may be right about that but where did you get that number about the $100 mil loss last year?

Honest question, just asking

 

[777_Jackpot]

FDJ2, you may be right about that but where did you get that number about the $100 mil loss last year?

Honest question, just asking

And the wildly profitable part

 

[skyslug]

DOT figures don't lie (I can't even type that with a straight face!! :laugh: ) so I was more curious as to where FDJ2 got his loss amount.