ASA Contract thoughts...

[~~~^~~~]

I will accept a lower hourly pay rate, even one rate, if they offer other ways to improve my w2. One bonus for one rate/dual qualification is a chance to bid based on QOL and not be stuck going backwards on the 700 list as we transfer them away.

Show me something in return, JA, Liarbrecque, and Tutt.

Many of the 700 guys seem to feel like they could take the pay cut in exchange for being able to bid better schedules on the 50. That tells us something - that the 700 is nto worth what it pays now!

I don't think LaBreque and Tutt have authority to negotiate anything.

 

[Sinca3]

Why does everyone keep saying "if" when this has already happened. ASA had firm orders for airplanes which were taken by Skywest, 13 if I'm not mistaken. Then there are the 11 airplanes that are part of SLC being taken by Skywest. In addition the 900's which ASA might have got. All together, we are talking around 19 to 25 airframes - and - these are the senior aircraft meaning two captain slots per aircraft.

Try 5.5-7 crews per airframe

 

[atlcrjdriver]

That tells us something - that the 700 is not worth what it pays now!

With my seniority, I could bid the CR7 and possibly hold 4 on 3 off. I don't bid the CR7 because the extra 4/hr isn't worth the offset of QOL. I hold 3 on 4 off and IF I really wanted to, could pick up a day line somewhere and make up the difference. Many other senior CR2 FOs hold this same thaught process. If the CR7 goes junior on the FO side as guys bid back to the CR2, then so be it. The only part of the deal I would not want is to be dual qualified CR2/7.

Again, state specifics, what is wrong with a single rate jet FO scale if we can match SKW?

 

[ASARJMan]

The FO pay scale, which has been a firestorm around the barn, is going to change. Every other DCI carrier has a single rate jet and single rate prop FO scale, what makes ACEY any different?

A "firestorm" eh Mr Mgt? Going to change, really now. We'll see real soon. Strike ballots are in the mail. YES for me.

 

[ASARJMan]

With my seniority, I could bid the CR7 and possibly hold 4 on 3 off. I don't bid the CR7 because the extra 4/hr isn't worth the offset of QOL. I hold 3 on 4 off and IF I really wanted to, could pick up a day line somewhere and make up the difference. Many other senior CR2 FOs hold this same thaught process. If the CR7 goes junior on the FO side as guys bid back to the CR2, then so be it. The only part of the deal I would not want is to be dual qualified CR2/7.

Hmm didn't know you mgt types flew Rjs. Voting YES, real soon.

 

[~~~^~~~]

Try 5.5-7 crews per airframe

Since - what I meant is each CR7 is actually two slots since the vacancy on the CR7 opens a vacancy on the CR2, or 11 "promoted" crew members per 70 seater.

 

[atlcrjdriver]

ASARJ, at least they taught you how to cut and paste in your kindergarden class, but don't forget not to eat the paste.

Since you seem to lack the ability to debate an issue w/o childlike banter, I will give you one more chance. Here is the question, ready?

Specifically, what is the problem with a single rate FO scale if we can match the SKW rate?

 

[sweptback]

Specifically, what is the problem with a single rate FO scale if we can match the SKW rate?

I am not ASARJ so I can't answer for him. However, I will give you my opinion.

Agreeing to a single payrate does nothing other than convince management that we are overcompensated. After all, if you agree to it, you will be flying 20-26 extra people around for 50-seat wages. I know that your job as a pilot is the same in either airplane, but your LIABILITY is not. All things the same, a 70-seat plane will make a larger hole in the ground than a 50-seat plane. Don't you feel that you should be compensated fairly for the extra responsibility of carrying around those extra passengers?

Now, I know that you have a belief that if we somehow cut our 70-seat payrate that we could make it up with trip and duty rigs to get a higher W2 at the end of the year. I know what is on our W2 is what counts and a payrate means little, but I am against a single payrate in any form, even if it results in a higher W2 than our 70-seat drivers currently have. That is how strongly I believe in the cause of separate payrates.

My other problem with the separate payrates is that management is only offering them to FOs. I'm sorry, but if they really want to get serious about this, why not make Captains have a single payscale? FOs are just as qualified as necessary as Captains on a 121 airplane. They aren't proposing that because they know that would piss us off even more than we are already. They know that they can go after the FOs because the junior FOs want to upgrade, and might be willing to give up some money for a potentially quicker upgrade. Ask Comair how that worked for them. Not to mention that unless your seniority number is in the 1100-1200 range, you will not be upgrading any time soon at ASA. So why are you voting yourself a paycut that you will not be able to make up?

Finally, I am against a single payrate because it sets a bad precident for the future. Let's say that ASA at some point gets true 90-seaters or above (and for the record I also want to say that I hope this never happens at ASA or any other regional airline). It would be easy for management to try to extend the single payrate up to an even higher seat class airplane, simply because we had already created a bad precident. If you think this won't happen, ask SkyWest if they will be making any more to fly their shiny new 900s.

In short, we should be learning from the mistakes of other pilot groups, not repeating them.

 

["GO AROUND"]

ASARJ, at least they taught you how to cut and paste in your kindergarden class, but don't forget not to eat the paste.

Since you seem to lack the ability to debate an issue w/o childlike banter, I will give you one more chance. Here is the question, ready?

Specifically, what is the problem with a single rate FO scale if we can match the SKW rate?

Because it is less per hr than our 70 FO rate. Why get paid less to be dual qualified? Get paid less for more work and responsibility! That's asinine!

Every other professional job out there, that if work, knowledge and responsibility is added or taken on, recieves a bump in pay.

Why can't you get that? You are advocating doing it for less.

 

[ASARJMan]

I am not ASARJ so I can't answer for him. However, I will give you my opinion..

That's pretty much my argument too. Last contract we insisted that the FOs get industry standard pay, which is 60% of Capt pay. We got it. The writing's on the wall. Eventually they'll be fewer 200s, and more 700s and 900s, if an actual strike is carried out, which of course will be up to our wonderful ASA management, and JA. Strike ballots should be on the way next week. Voting YES.

 

[atlcrjdriver]

Finally, a judicious debate with good points all around. To say a single rate FO scale would set a bad precident. Precident has already been set with every other DCI carrier except ASA. No matter what type of a/c we fly, it will have a max of 76 seats in it for DL per the new TA. I include the SKW pay rate as this would give the CR2 FO a bump in pay and drop CR7 FO ~2/hr. As I stated earlier, I would also oppose becoming dual qualified CR2/7.

To say that there would ever be a single rate CA pay scale would not make sense because it is the captain that is the final authority for every life onboard that a/c, not the FO.